Old 10th Mar 2020, 11:59
  #408 (permalink)  
Capn Bloggs
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Seat 0A
Posts: 8,020
Originally Posted by uncle8
Does anyone else think that there should be a brown line on the VTC to indicate that there is a change in the E base from 2500 to 1500 at the 8nm arc both to the north and south of Avalon?
Sounds fair, Uncle.

Originally Posted by Andrew R
Class E is not for the benefit of VFR aircraft.
No it's not. It ONLY exists to benefit VFR (John and Martha said so, all those years ago on their Airspace 2000 sellathon). Otherwise, if any "controlling" was required (for the only other participants, IFR), it would be "Controlled Airspace", period. It was invented by the yanks to allow VFR, off-radio and no DTI, to fly wherever they wanted.

As for the "if it's not IMC, IFR don't need ATC", this is also nonsense. "OK, no clearance available? Let's go IFR-Pickup". Do some research on how many heavy-jet companies actually allow their operations to switch to VFR because a ATC clearance wasn't available. Not to mention the IFR cowboys (yes Huustan, cowboys) doing an IFR pickup with no prior coordination with the other IFR aircraft that is so close to them ATC can't/won't give them a clearance. Did the inventors of IFR Pickups actually think sane pilots would just go VFR, look out the front and hope that she'll be right??

I'm not surprised if the Avalon airspace is being reviewed. It appears to have been designed to fail. It has been located to provide no benefit (or even lesser service) to IFR aircraft rather than benefits. Given the ongoing opposition to Class E as used e.g. in the USA, I suspect it was set up so they could say "Yes we tried it", without any chance of success.
It failed because you can't mix uncontrolled VFR with IFR, especially jets, at a busy airport like AVV. E at Avalon is no longer "fit for purpose" (may have been when they who shall not be named got it installed there, but not now).

Originally Posted by Triadic
In the US, I suspect that VFR pilots fly more in E than they do in G. Some talk to the controller, whilst others turn the music on! A very different culture!
Says it all, really.

Last edited by Capn Bloggs; 10th Mar 2020 at 12:04. Reason: Lowered my Hoostenesque tone.
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