Originally Posted by
olster
This accident was classic Swiss cheese. It is appalling to lay the blame on the crew who found themselves confused by a complex malfunctioning system they did not know existed. Boeing are liable certainly ethically and morally with a complete failure in management oversight and breakdown of traditional engineering principals. Shame on you, Thomas. It is beyond asinine to claim pilot error when there are so many other factors.
many factors....
And some of those , which if done correctly would have meant that nobody would have died, was the failure of Lionair the day before the fatal crash to
admit that they had experienced a very serious new fault which was beyond their understanding, that a third pilot knew and effectively saved the day , to not call the safety office right away on landing and pilot management team to inform them, which would have lead to immediate grounding/ or should/ to falsify the tech log entry such that corrective action was not taken. Any of those would have saved both crashes. And perhaps a culture of fear which prevented the honesty required in this situation. And a press on mentality perhaps- but we don’t know that. The rest we do.
And the CVR which has never been released is truly astonishing and one can only draw one conclusion.
can anyone else draw another? If it proves that all the correct procedures were carried out?
Yes this is indeed a multi factorial crash as are most, but I don’t fall into the single cause camp-“ Boeing is the only factor”.
Training is a much bigger factor for the future of safe aviation and if they don’t fix that it’s going to happen again. By the way, Boeing don’t train the line pilots. Only a cadre of trainers - maybe six -ten, who then take that very basic training and using their expertise and knowledge turn that into their own SOPs. Publish their own version of VOL1 (flying manual)
first time I flew at Boeing field with a Boeing co pilot I was amazed at how more comprehensive our own SOPs were. The Boeing training is designed as a bare template- each airline trains to their own, and often much higher standard. Boeing told me often that if you guys would all fly the same and didn’t order hundreds of different options we could knock a few million off the price. Fact is, every airline thinks they have it right for them. Many airlines fly in a manner that is quite different from each other. I have been involved in the training of hundreds of direct entry pilots and it is very difficult indeed to retrain these pilots into a new way of operation. Dan Air for example operated in a very different way to say BA.
Nothing wrong with that. It’s just different.
so it’s a complex situation and if we get into camps it won’t be resolved. Hating GT as I see above is no way to move forward. Tackle the ball not the man
R Guy