Originally Posted by
Bob Viking
.................Are you trying to tell me that at the end of long sectors pilots are always tired and, as a result, are not able to perform a safe approach?
If this is the case then why do the rules allow it?
I suppose the greatest irony here is that, in a Hawk, I completed an approach to 28R at SFO at the end of a 12 hour work day in 2012. So you see, it wasn’t in a wide body, but I have actually been there. I was tired too.
I realise you have a lot of experience in the commercial world (whereas all of my experience is fast jet) and I don’t but I do fly as a long haul passenger quite regularly. If the ability to fly a safe approach is truly so compromised by fatigue then surely something needs to be done about it.
BV
Let’s calm down a second. I for one basically agree with you.
Not always, but yes, myself and others are saying that fatigue sometimes plays a part. We were all unhappy when EASA rules came in, but sadly not enough of us nor BALPA nor our CAA were prepared to refuse the new FTL rules. So here we are. I put in fatigue reports as many others do, but companies are continually screwing more and more hours out of fewer and fewer pilots because the passenger will usually only pay for the cheapest fight. In my company, we fly three crew on flight times over 10 hours or so, so at least we each get a couple of hours’ rest outside the cockpit. However, for us that rest is in a seat in the passenger compartment, with a curtain around it. You can still hear - and are kept awake by - passengers around you talking.
We have video briefings about certain airports but sometimes it can be your first time there, and no amount of words on a page or videos can fully prepare you for an American airport..............
This Cathay crew screwed up. They missed a turn. I don’t know why, but very probably it was fatigue or inadequate preparation or briefing. The Cathay pilot on the radio sounds stressed to me. Maybe none of the flight crew had been to SFO before.
Some Long-haul pilots are short on manual handling skills. They shouldn’t be, but many are. If you only get two landings a month and are encouraged by your airline and FDM to fly with the automatics then this can be the result. I have suggested several times on other threads how this might be addressed.
Bear in mind that airliners are mostly flown by average pilots - (and I include myself in that analysis). Fast jet pilots from the forces are much better pilots than most of us because they were the best 0.0001% (or whatever) selected from all applicants.
UK ATC is the best in the world in my humble opinion and 18 years’ commercial flying. Many US airports would benefit by learning from UK trained and experienced ATCers such as those from Heathrow, Gatwick or Swanwick.
Fly safe
