Originally Posted by
SaulGoodman
Go for the best employer in a location that you want to be. You are only 24. You can grow fat in the left seat for years to come.
Somehow I doubt RYR is the best employer. If it was, you would not get your command as rapidly.
I have some friends who forked out the TQ and went for Ryanair. Got abused for years on end and were send from base to base. They either got command fast or went to Emirates and are now in their command training. The ones who went for command in Ryanair either went to China or went to certain European locos without collective labour agreements. By far most of them are complaining.
I went for a company with a long seniority list, CLA, pension scheme, part time option, union. Obviously it is not all rainbows and unicorns over here, and I do not get paid as much as most of them yet. And I am still sitting in the right hand seat for some 5 more years. But at least I can live where I (or actually my wife) wants to live. I can mostly organize my personal life. My kids grow up in Western Europe.
Again, you are only 24. Try to get into a respected carrier. Choose long term.
Well. I am a RYR skipper as well. However, worked for many airlines before, some of them great(and dead now), some other not so much. Far from being 24. In the old days we used to fly a 23 year old FO was something mentionable.Then it moved to 21 and they where considered kids, then 19.... Now we are in the age of kid captains, well, as long as the insurers join the game it seems to be smooth for the airlines. Saves a lot of money. My 10 cents about NG flying.
RYR is in fact, for SOME of us, the BEST option that not many other airlines, even most of the european "legacies", just cannot beat. What do I mean? I joined with a particular base in mind(and if the close it/transfer me I am out of here), only wanted a DEC job with an employment contract(no agency BS). Got both. Happy. Always see my kids, wife, every day. Sleep in my bed nearly every day(exception the sim if it is a 2 session gig). After 25 years of NOT having that - fantastic. Have done this longhaul, widebody skipper crap, not worth it(IMHO, of course, as always). Same short range jobs with "established" carriers, meaning you start day 1 at your homebase(or deadhead), fly, hotel, fly again, hotel, fly, usually another hotel, fly, home. Normally not more then 2 days off and it starts over again.
Prefer to do that for 5 days in a row, hopefully with at least 1 Stby, 4 OFF. REALLY? That is bad in your eyes?
IF you manage(and you did your homework before) to ask for the right country you end up with a decent salary in RYR. I got my country, base. Happy. Simple as that.
You live with that what they throw at you, say nicely yes, tick your box at crewdock and go on with your nice life.
Do you seriously think life in EK or in China(Xiamen is the place where most RYR guys went off to, check how many are really happy over there) is better? In Europe you can always call a lawyer, unions(lol), a court to try to fight for your rights. Try that with the Middle East or China(or India, Korea, even in Japan it is a hell of a job to organize that for, lets say, an European).
There is this boy, 24, soon having a chance to get an upgrade on one of the most used single aisle aircraft in this horrible world. Of course you go for it. And get some bloody command experience, at LEAST 2000 hours. If you add a few k more you may even get a direct entry command on a widebody. After all it does not make really a difference how big the plane is after the cockpit if you know what you are doing. And again, I used to be a widebody skipper.
Now - RYR has unions (what they are worth it, but this counts as well for any other european airline), CLA, some seniority lists implemented so they cannot ship you off your base/country if you have been around for a while(and a while in RYR is not really that long). Means after a few years you are fine. Why the hell would you change that? I know some (irish) guys went to "Shamrock" for instance, others to HOP(because this is the only way into AF it seems for french, no idea), others for Dolomiti(LH, same as AF)). But this means, IF you are a captain, back to square 1. And for what exactly? For some feeder airline with no realistic chance to join the mainline? Same goes for Shamrock.
If you plan to do so it would be wise to do that really young(because any older does not make really any financial sense) - still - you have worse rosters and equal pay at best. AND a really long cue ahead of you for upgrading. Cool advice. Leave the winning team(and let's be honest, if we like it or not, RYR IS the winning team as long as the European Union is not doing something against their working practice - they did never till now, see Italy for instance. Put their tail between their rear legs and ran whimping off till now) and join average airlines with no real remarkable perks.
We need to stay realistic here.
Just for the fun of it - let's "explore" the other option - going longhaul as a 24 year old FO. I could not really find a hint if it would be the ME(most likely) or some classic carrier here in Europe(3 sorts then, classic Mainline, meaning you are close to 40 till command, or classic charter, usually all of them having some sort of "mafia" style upgrade policy wih no real seniority, upgrades usually always just a promise but you do not know when that ever happens, especially it really depends on fleet growth OR loco Longhaul, lets say a 787(^^) - only one of them around, and we all know how they are doing at the moment).
We have seen how many airlines folded over the last 18 months here in Europe, some are still fighting to get up on their feet again.
EK/QR - they do with you what they want. You always thought RYR is threating you like you are their bitch? Try the ME and get some first hand impressions about proper labour laws. Again - have been there, know what I am talking about.
Or there are some cargo operators, 777(german speaking required) or 747(horrible chain rosters with not enough pilots). OR you can have a 5/4.
I am not a "fan" of RYR, but I only would leave them on my terms and not on others. And to be blunt honest, not so many good airlines are remaining on this planet that I would know which of them would be really worth the hassle of another change. Most of them are bad as well, and just for the nicer threatment I just do not change company anymore.