Originally Posted by
ams6110
My version would be: if a pilot cannot fly stick and rudder, pitch and power when all else fails, no aircraft can be considered safe. If a airline or country is unable or unwilling to train their pilots in the basics of flying unassisted, then they should not be operating air transport services.
Originally Posted by
Water pilot
What does that have to do with this thread? This was not a case of the automatics failing and the pilots not knowing how to fly, it was a case of undesirable interference by the automatics during hand flight. The criteria being debated is how skillful should pilots be at responding to a design flaw and if it is safe for a manufacturer to know of the flaw and assume that pilots would all be that skillful.
"stick and rudder, pitch and power" also means basic airmanship. Basic airmanship also involves keeping your aircraft in trim at all times.
In both accidents the pilots were unable to properly deal with a stick shaker at takeoff. Basic airmanship would dictate not raising the flaps when faced with a stick shaker at takeoff. That act lone should have saved the day.