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Old 29th Apr 2019, 08:43
  #4563 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: dublin
Posts: 2
Originally Posted by 737 Driver View Post

I understand your position, and I fully support what you say about the need to hold the manufacturers, regulators and airlines accountable. However, I guess we will have to just agree to disagree on how much control the crews had on the outcome.

To me, the great tragedy of these two accidents is not in the complexity of the malfunction, but rather in the simplicity of the appropriate response.

Since my very first days as a student pilot, one primary commandment has been repeated over and over and over again. This commandment applied to all operations, normal and otherwise. Following this commandment may not always save the day, but disregarding it will almost always lose it.

So I'll say it again and again, for as long as it takes: FLY THE AIRCRAFT, first, last, and always.

For all situations, for all malfunctions, for all weather conditions, for all regimes of flight, some pilot must be actively monitoring, and if necessary, actively flying the aircraft. Whenever there is undesired or unexpected aircraft state, the pilot's first and most important priority is NOT to figure out what it is going wrong. The pilot's first priority is to FLY THE AIRCRAFT. Set appropriate attitude and power, monitor the performance, trim as necessary, adjust as appropriate.

In all of the discussion of these accidents, there has not been a single shred of evidence that the primary flight controls or trim were not responding to pilot inputs. There has been no credible argument that if the pilot flying had simply set a reasonable pitch attitude, set a reasonable power setting, and trimmed out the control pressures, that the plane would not have been flyable. The fact remains that in the heat of the moment, these crews forgot or disregarded the first commandment of aviation - FLY THE AIRCRAFT, first, last, and always. WHY they forgot and what corrective measures can be taken to train future crews should certainly be part of a serious post mortem, but we cannot remain in a state of denial regarding what happened.

Sadly, no matter how many times this commandment is repeated, and tacitly acknowledged by just about every pilot, we still seem to have difficulty applying it in practice. Any professional pilot here likely has access to various incident/accident reports. We can read the narratives and easily determine in which cases there was someone actively monitoring or flying the aircraft, and in which cases they were not. Fortunately, most of the "not's" do not wind up as a smoking hole somewhere, but it is still somewhat distressing how often the first commandment is forgotten.

737 driver
you are saying what Iíve said since the beginning. Someone just said we need a plane that donít go wrong. Dream on.
This ref QF72 is interesting. 65 complex faults. ALL aural warnings going off at once. Crippled (clearly not) aircraft.
Safe landing. FLY THE PLANE. PITCH POWER. TREAT WARNINGS WITH CAUTION IF THEY DONT APPEAR VALID Use excellent training and CRM to overcome the unexpected.
on takeoff with correct pitch/power/rate of climb/ groundspeed you are safe even if every aural and visual computer generated warning is sounding simultaneously. Youíve got to be trained to cope with that.
AF477 wasnít. Many more. My concern is not the avionics although clearly MCAS Needs a Mk2 version without the glitches we know about. It is that we may have literally thousands of younger pilots already out there and in the pipeline untrained for the totally unexpected.
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