Old 2nd Feb 2019, 23:38
  #973 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: LONDON
Posts: 0
Originally Posted by Sir Niall Dementia View Post

I agree that the agents and everyone else deserves to be punished, but Dave Ibbotson committed a criminal act in taking on this flight, his social media posts about lack of practise were foolish, he must have known where he stood legally. Henderson and McKay have a lot to answer for, but the pilot is ultimately responsible for his actions. In an earlier post you used the term "he was acting as a pilot" I'd agree, it was an act, he was neither qualified, nor competent to be there, just like all the actors in Top Gun, Airplane 74, 77, The High and the Mighty etc etc. They were acting a part, not competent or qualified as pilots. I know how horrendous commercial pressure on a single pilot, charter operation can be, I've lived it for years, it's where I earn my living, but I also know how protected I am if I say no. I've told customers "I'm not paid enough to die for you." like another poster on this thread I've gladly accepted unemployment rather than face flying for a total arse who won't listen when I tell him something is either illegal or potentially lethal (total arse's next pilot killed him when he hit a mountain flying outside his qualifications and the aircraft flight manual.)

If Ibbotson had made Cardiff he wouldn't have been a hero, just another criminal pilot who hasn't been caught yet. Seems harsh, but I'm responsible for a lot of staff on an AOC struggling because of law breaking like this. I do feel sorry for his family because by his actions he's left them not just with the horrendous loss and mess to deal with, but because he left them with that loss and mess by knowingly breaking the law, and that will tarnish everything for them.

To some degree we are singing from the same hymn sheet, I would really hope that both McKay & Henderson get dealt with in the most appropriate way by the judicial system.
Now, to break down your contribution into segments :

(1) Dave Ibbotson could have been operating within the privileges of his licence quite legally on the outbound flight because it was Day VFR & he is entitled to do that.

(2) Dave Ibbotson was offered a weekend away in Nantes with all expenses paid if he flew N264DB there & back ( Having your HOTAC paid isn't renumeration, it is an essential need whilst away from home ) Having food & drink purchased for you isn't renumeration either.

(3) If Dave Ibbotson really believed that it was a daytime VFR flight out on Saturday & a daytime VFR flight back on the Monday he was for all intents & purposes going to be flying within the privileges of his licence.

(4) Even if Dave Ibbotson was getting a 'brown envelope' I am sure that the hand that gave him the envelope didn't ask for an invoice that states the payment was for PILOT SERVICES. The organisers of this flight will be too wise to all that.......So who is to say he did get an envelope stuffed with 'readies' ? For all we know he might have been just doing his mate a favour. ( highly unlikely but we can't prove that ).

(5) Dave Ibbotson was qualified as a pilot to fly any SEP up to 5700kg so with the PA46 310 having a MTOW of 2310kg he was 100% legal on paper to be flying it, now whether he was competent to fly it is something we really don't know but I would assume he was 'checked out on type' by someone? It is slightly unfair to imply he was acting ( as in filmstar acting in an aircraft movie ) by twisting my words of him acting as a pilot.

(6) I agree that Dave Ibbotson shouldn't have made a flight at night because it was outside his licence privileges, however he didn't make a conscious decision to commit suicide & take a 15m Footballer with him either.......he probably thought " I can do this & get away with it " but as is painfully obvious he has now paid the ultimate price & his dependents will be paying an even bigger price for his lack of judgement.

(7) The general concensus is that because the McKay's possibly paid Dave Henderson to organise the flight to Nantes & back that Dave Ibbotson was possibly paid by Dave Henderson. For all we know there might not have been any payment made to Dave Ibbotson because as far as I can see nobody has mentioned that Dave Ibbotson did this as a paid job? It has been mentioned that his hotel bill was covered, his subsistence costs have been covered & that the fuel & landing charges have been covered ( None of the known about payments have benefitted Dave Ibbotson financially ).

(8) So at this point everything is conjecture formed on the basis of incomplete information.

(9) Let's just assume for one second that Dave Ibbotson did honestly believe that both sectors were to be daytime VFR flights and accepted it on that basis with his HOTAC all paid for and that no financial incentive was offered ( he voluntarily flew the para aircraft to get free hours so how do we know he didn't agree to fly the PA46 to get some free hours also? ) On that thought he isn't just another criminal pilot who hasn't been caught yet. His only major mistake was allowing peer pressure to push him to do a rather stupid thing by flying outside his licence privileges.

(10) Now comes the real nub.......There are some CPL & ATPL pilots out there that I wouldn't lend a pushbike to, there are some PPL pilots out there that I would lend anything to.....So, it isn't the paperwork that makes the person.......there are some pilots running around on AOC's that haven't got the intelligence to run a bath.
As with everything in life there are naturals in some walks of life & some who are inept in some walks of life, the irony is that a mix of the inept are in with the naturals in both the ATPL/CPL & PPL camps.

Now to look at your remark of : " total arse's next pilot killed him when he hit a mountain flying outside his qualifications and the aircraft flight manual " I don't actually know which CFIT accident you are referring to so I can't comment on that incident ? However guessing you have been in aviation quite a while I am pretty sure you will have heard about Neil Williams flying a Heinkel 1-11 into a mountain that killed him & his wife on a delivery flight? Whoever would have thought he would have made such a huge mistake? Accidents happen to the best of them/us so there but for the grace of god go we.

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