"Substitute" Pilots ?
Thread Starter
"Substitute" Pilots ?
Perhaps I'm missing something in this proposed concept. Is this an effort to organize and position a cadre of strike breakers ?
"Avia Solutions Group, managing one of the largest pilot centres in Eastern Europe BAA Training, has already entered several preliminary confidential contracts with large carriers to train a number of the so called substitute pilots. These companies are ready to cover the cost of training new pilots for several years. Following their training, these pilots shall gain the primary flying experience and accumulate flight hours in smaller airlines. Then, if there’s a pilot strike, the airline which has initially covered his or her training, can call upon the pilot to fill in the empty seat on a temporary or permanent basis."
https://aviationvoice.com/asg-e-35-m...-201710041433/
"Avia Solutions Group, managing one of the largest pilot centres in Eastern Europe BAA Training, has already entered several preliminary confidential contracts with large carriers to train a number of the so called substitute pilots. These companies are ready to cover the cost of training new pilots for several years. Following their training, these pilots shall gain the primary flying experience and accumulate flight hours in smaller airlines. Then, if there’s a pilot strike, the airline which has initially covered his or her training, can call upon the pilot to fill in the empty seat on a temporary or permanent basis."
https://aviationvoice.com/asg-e-35-m...-201710041433/
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Then, if there’s a pilot strike, the airline which has initially covered his or her training, can call upon the pilot to fill in the empty seat on a temporary or permanent basis."
I'm at a loss to understand the logic of this. Firstly, if the substitute pilots are 'called up' they will then leave their host airline in the lurch. That in itself would waken up the legal boys. Then there are the type rating courses required, even OCC's for type rated guys. They are not instantaneous and would require strike breaking instructors to help out. And then, just how long is this strike? It will take many weeks to 'replace' the regulars with substitutes, by which time the host airline is bust after a 2 month strike.
What a curious concept. And I thought BAA was based in Lithuania which is EU.
I'm at a loss to understand the logic of this. Firstly, if the substitute pilots are 'called up' they will then leave their host airline in the lurch. That in itself would waken up the legal boys. Then there are the type rating courses required, even OCC's for type rated guys. They are not instantaneous and would require strike breaking instructors to help out. And then, just how long is this strike? It will take many weeks to 'replace' the regulars with substitutes, by which time the host airline is bust after a 2 month strike.
What a curious concept. And I thought BAA was based in Lithuania which is EU.
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What if the " substitute pilots " will declare a so called " strike " ??
I wanna be part of that , sitting almost all the year around ,payed, waiting a strike happen somewhere...
I wanna be part of that , sitting almost all the year around ,payed, waiting a strike happen somewhere...
Last edited by Nick 1; 5th Oct 2017 at 20:15.
Thread Starter
Thread Starter
It'd be interesting to know what carriers have already signed on with this program:
"...BAA Training, has already entered several preliminary confidential contracts with large carriers to train a number of the so called substitute pilots."
I thought there was a pilot shortage.
"...BAA Training, has already entered several preliminary confidential contracts with large carriers to train a number of the so called substitute pilots."
I thought there was a pilot shortage.
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“Take, for instance, a bus driver. He or she is also responsible for safe transporting tens of people at a time. However, a bus driver isn’t paid a third of what a pilot is.” says G. Ziemelis.
What a dick. Tens vs hundreds of people. A PSV license requiring maybe £500-1000 of training costs vs £125,000, Oh and next time I have an engine failure I'll look for the hazard flashers and pull over to the side of the airway and call the AA. Had to check the date of the article after reading this.
The rest of the article has equal amount of fact I can assume?
What a dick. Tens vs hundreds of people. A PSV license requiring maybe £500-1000 of training costs vs £125,000, Oh and next time I have an engine failure I'll look for the hazard flashers and pull over to the side of the airway and call the AA. Had to check the date of the article after reading this.
The rest of the article has equal amount of fact I can assume?
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The whiff of a Snake Oil salesman
An interesting concept worthy of a bean-counting despot with no understanding of how an airline actually works. In EASA land, all pilots have to be trained and checked according to their airline’s training manuals. Each has to have a minimum of 90 day currency. But let’s assume you have a pool of ‘substitute’ pilots full trained according to my company’s procedures. They’ll be sitting at home doing nothing, forgetting how to fly and work with our procedures and getting paid nothing. If I go on strike tomorrow my ‘substitute’ will have to be made current, pass a check, do their line training (40 flights) and come on line about about six weeks later. I think RAT was very optimistic with two weeks. Now tell me again how this works...
Either Avia Solutions are have a poor grasp of how airlines actually work and the regulations that EASA requires them to comply with or this is a another scam. So I think when Mr. Ziemelis says he is in talks with airlines, he doesn’t mean real ones that fly aeroplanes. What I think he is trying to sell training to poor victims who think they might get to fly with one.
But I could be wrong. We could go on strike and be replaced by ‘sustitutes’. Then you could possibly be flown by a complete crew with little or no recent experience. What could possibly go wrong?
A dreamer to be avoided at all costs.
Either Avia Solutions are have a poor grasp of how airlines actually work and the regulations that EASA requires them to comply with or this is a another scam. So I think when Mr. Ziemelis says he is in talks with airlines, he doesn’t mean real ones that fly aeroplanes. What I think he is trying to sell training to poor victims who think they might get to fly with one.
But I could be wrong. We could go on strike and be replaced by ‘sustitutes’. Then you could possibly be flown by a complete crew with little or no recent experience. What could possibly go wrong?
A dreamer to be avoided at all costs.
Thread Starter
Reveal1,
Yes, that's an understandable reaction. Little point in mounting a detailed prosecution of the proposal; it IS its own prosecution.
There's a long history of management people who harbor such thoughts (fantasies ?).
But it's so wacky that it's worth noting.
Yes, that's an understandable reaction. Little point in mounting a detailed prosecution of the proposal; it IS its own prosecution.
There's a long history of management people who harbor such thoughts (fantasies ?).
But it's so wacky that it's worth noting.
Thread Starter
Stupid ideas abound worldwide.
In this case, the real question isn't the validity of the concept which is self-discrediting but which airlines signed "confidential contracts" to align themselves with it.
If the allegation is accurate, who are these airlines ?
There's little chance this could be kept "confidential". If they intended to keep it quiet, why is the guy who hatched this plot talking to the media ?
None of this adds up.
In this case, the real question isn't the validity of the concept which is self-discrediting but which airlines signed "confidential contracts" to align themselves with it.
If the allegation is accurate, who are these airlines ?
There's little chance this could be kept "confidential". If they intended to keep it quiet, why is the guy who hatched this plot talking to the media ?
None of this adds up.
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Maybe they want to do like for the fighter jet pilots in some army. I mean reserve pilots.
So you have mister X, he is accoutant but reserve pilot as well for Z Airline, he is current, going to the SIM every 6 months and flying 10hr a months at least. Obviously paid only when he fly !
If there is a strike, he ll go and fly ! But don t forget he is an accountant too, he can do some office work during the cruise ! Amazing !
I suspect something like this ! Even if I really don't see the advantages for airlines, you see lots of strike in the airline business recently ? Lots of For ready to fly for nothing ... And reserve cpt ? I don't believe it ...
As said before, I suspect again some
to make stupid people pay for their training or what ever
So you have mister X, he is accoutant but reserve pilot as well for Z Airline, he is current, going to the SIM every 6 months and flying 10hr a months at least. Obviously paid only when he fly !
If there is a strike, he ll go and fly ! But don t forget he is an accountant too, he can do some office work during the cruise ! Amazing !
I suspect something like this ! Even if I really don't see the advantages for airlines, you see lots of strike in the airline business recently ? Lots of For ready to fly for nothing ... And reserve cpt ? I don't believe it ...
As said before, I suspect again some
to make stupid people pay for their training or what ever
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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The underwriters that provide the insurance for these aircraft, to be flown by 'substitute pilots', will be taking a good look at this, as will the regulator whose register the aircraft are on. Type rating, currency, IR currency, type of licence, company induction course including line training are requirements that will need to be met.
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The underwriters that provide the insurance for these aircraft, to be flown by 'substitute pilots', will be taking a good look at this, as will the regulator whose register the aircraft are on. Type rating, currency, IR currency, type of licence, company induction course including line training are requirements that will need to be met.
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The one thing to keep your eyes on is airline management lobbying of EASA/xAA to be able to switch aircraft AOCs in under 24 hours. With that, professional scabs can man any airline's aircraft because their training is per the scab AOC.