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Old 6th Oct 2017, 07:57   #21 (permalink)
 
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The one thing to keep your eyes on is airline management lobbying of EASA/xAA to be able to switch aircraft AOCs in under 24 hours. With that, professional scabs can man any airline's aircraft because their training is per the scab AOC.
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Old 7th Oct 2017, 06:04   #22 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Fanatic View Post
“Take, for instance, a bus driver. He or she is also responsible for safe transporting tens of people at a time. However, a bus driver isn’t paid a third of what a pilot is.” says G. Ziemelis.
I suggest that pilot association should thank Mr Ziemelis and Europe airlines for their generosity..

Just we need to inform Mr Ziemelis that as we have a free market he can find pilots flying heavy jets with 2000E gross salary (if he is able).

A Pilot salary is not so high because someone did him a favour. Maybe someone needs to study more the law of demand and supply. Unforunately for him we dont live in communism.
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Old 7th Oct 2017, 09:19   #23 (permalink)
 
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There's no way a regulator of any standard would allow this. The only way to achieve this plan would to have a whole operation; aircraft, pilots. ops staff and engineering support in reserve. Can't see that happening.
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Old 7th Oct 2017, 12:47   #24 (permalink)
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Regardless of the otherworldly nature of the proposition or the slim chance of its implementation, this isn’t about manipulation of AOCs, who insures what, maintaining pilot currency, regulatory actions or anything of such mundane nature.

It’s about a plan to form a cadre of pilots to step forward and replace strikers (a rather bold move)…and the several airlines who have allegedly signed contracts to participate in said plan.

Perhaps Mr. Ziemelis is just blowing smoke; perhaps he’s not. The valuable info would be knowing which airlines so readily joined the effort. Would that influence one’s choice of potential employers ?

Privacy is an illusion. If “…several…large carriers…” have signed on to the plan, someone knows who they are.

And they should be revealed.

Last edited by bafanguy; 7th Oct 2017 at 21:18.
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Old 7th Oct 2017, 14:07   #25 (permalink)
 
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"Avia Solutions Group, managing one of the largest pilot centres in Eastern Europe BAA Training, has already entered several preliminary confidential contracts with large carriers to train a number of the so called substitute pilots. These companies are ready to cover the cost of training new pilots for several years."

Or could it be a ruse to help separate budding pilots from their hard earned cash? It might fill desperate cadets' eyes with rose petals, but not captains, and the plan needs both. Could it be a ruse to boost the short-term cash flow of a training centre.
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Old 7th Oct 2017, 14:30   #26 (permalink)
 
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An opportunist and reprehensible marketing scheme to convince pimple-faced pilot wannabes to part with their bank loan and/or parent’s money toward type training.

Airline CEO’s have no use for ‘substitute pilots’ to collaborate in undermining terms and conditions for striking pilots. Direct employment circumvention already permits rented pilots to be used immorally.

“Norwegian breaks the pilot strike in Norway by using Spain based crews” – Link:

http://www.sepla.es/en/sala-de-prens...nes-de-espana/
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Old 7th Oct 2017, 20:28   #27 (permalink)
 
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Avianca allowed to bring in foreign pilots amid strike-civil aviation


https://www.reuters.com/article/colo...-idUSL2N1ME0OB
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Old 7th Oct 2017, 21:21   #28 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Direct Bondi View Post
An opportunist and reprehensible marketing scheme to convince pimple-faced pilot wannabes to part with their bank loan and/or parent’s money toward type training.
DB,

Perhaps. No shortage of possible motives here but the end goal of management is what's important.
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Old 8th Oct 2017, 06:21   #29 (permalink)
 
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Could it be simply that as the pilot shortage due a demographic shift of never before magnitude accelerates airline management is desperate to contain their 'labour unit cost' as low as they can?

  • Pilotless aircraft inside 5 years?
  • Strike breaking airline pilots?
  • 1989 pilot's strike threats about redundancy?
  • 2011 Qantas grounding and lockout?
Alan Joyce at Qantas ought be studied, his language when announcing the 'terminal decline' of Qantas international in 2011, before the now 'transformed' repeatedly contained continued implied threats of job loss, for cabin crew,pilots and engineers...statement after statement.

This doom narrative is typical at most airlines (indeed corporates) as they maintain an adversarial Industrial Relations posture and huge numbers of staff specifically designed to contain wage expectations.

Michael O'Leary's (Ryanair)language until very recently was consistently condescending toward his pilots and included implied threats of cancelling leave and job losses.

This is standard adversarial labour relations.

Unfortunately for O'Leary he is now on bended knee to his pilots as the shortage bites.
Their model is set up to be the standard adversarial model to which airlines aspire.

The one glaring error in their model is that it necessitates unlimited supply.

Take the threats as just that; the beast thrashing around!
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Old 11th Oct 2017, 14:52   #30 (permalink)
 
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Am I the only one physically sick reading this article?
No, you are not alone. This is a terrible idea. It sounds as if it is a MOL scheme. The man has no shame when it comes to taking advantage of crews. He should be banned from aviation.
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Old 11th Oct 2017, 15:35   #31 (permalink)
 
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No, you are not alone. This is a terrible idea. It sounds as if it is a MOL scheme.
And to think years ago I thought nobody could hold their pilots in as low esteem and with as dodgy contracts as Niki! Shows you things can always sink lower.

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The insurers are one point, however, there is an easy way around the regulator issue. Simply register your aircraft in ireland, they do not take any look as long as the paperwork seems halfway legit and the money keeps rolling in.
Somebody really needs to take a closer look at that cesspit.
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Old 11th Oct 2017, 15:40   #32 (permalink)
 
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Flash is right, this needs to be stopped. The regulatory level should stop this thing in its tracks before young pilots get in a bad spot.
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Old 11th Oct 2017, 21:27   #33 (permalink)
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I've been following the replies here hoping to learn how the legal/cultural differences in the EU might play in this scenario, an admittedly far fetched one.

I don't see the sense of outrage there such a plan would produce here in the USA. Our history has produced a scab list going back 50+ years; it still exists and circulates.

As for "young pilots", would these kids understand the maelstrom any participation in this scheme would bring down upon them...or maybe it wouldn't ? Would they not be branded as scabs for life ? There's no way their choices (leading to actions) would be a secret.

They'd be crossing a picket line to fly struck flying.

Or maybe, due to legal/cultural differences, there'd be no personal/career penalty to pay over there ?

Help me understand this.

Last edited by bafanguy; 12th Oct 2017 at 10:48.
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Old 12th Oct 2017, 18:28   #34 (permalink)
 
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I smell a rat. Something is very wrong with this idea.

Last edited by No Fly Zone; 12th Oct 2017 at 18:29. Reason: Spelling and missed word
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Old 12th Oct 2017, 19:09   #35 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by bafanguy View Post
I've been following the replies here hoping to learn how the legal/cultural differences in the EU might play in this scenario, an admittedly far fetched one.

I don't see the sense of outrage there such a plan would produce here in the USA. Our history has produced a scab list going back 50+ years; it still exists and circulates.
The reason this has not produced a tirade of indignation in Europe is simply it is total . Either it is a figment of some deluded soles imagination or a silly scam to extract money from the very desperate and stupid. We are quite used to such things here.
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