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Old 8th Sep 2017, 11:43   #1 (permalink)
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British airways pension to close.

Lots of news outlets reporting that BA are to close NAPS.

Sky News. BA to Close Pension

Not happy.
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Old 8th Sep 2017, 13:36   #2 (permalink)

Uncle Pete
 
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When will the Government act to protect the pensions we have bought over the years. This is life-changing for many but all the political parties show little interest in protecting our money.

Perhaps if MPs were in a similar position something would be done!
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Old 8th Sep 2017, 14:18   #3 (permalink)
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Politicians have always looked after themselves first. Irrespective of party, country or ideology.

Pikes on Tower Bridge, Guillotines etc are all they have ever deserved.
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Old 8th Sep 2017, 14:22   #4 (permalink)
 
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And outside of Nigel, who exactly cares?........
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Old 8th Sep 2017, 14:31   #5 (permalink)
 
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Because if BA can impose such a change then others will be watching and planning to do the same. This 'cost saving' attitude is not in isolation. But living where you do, your location, I can understand the blasť comment.
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Old 8th Sep 2017, 14:41   #6 (permalink)
 
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they should be required to pay out the pensions saved.

how is it any different from stealing money? this is cash people paid out of their paychecks, not just some imaginary benefit the unions created.
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Old 8th Sep 2017, 14:58   #7 (permalink)
 
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Unfortunately the writing has been on the wall for years over the sustainability of NAPS. I was one of the lucky ones who got their money out but I do hope that those left behind are taken care of.

I do think there are questions to be asked of a lot of people not least the Trustees. The Stock market have boomed over the last 8 years but their investment returns havnt been anything as good.
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Old 8th Sep 2017, 15:23   #8 (permalink)
 
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So you are no longer a member of either NAPS or APS?
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Old 8th Sep 2017, 15:31   #9 (permalink)
 
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No - I transferred out when I left BA. It was an easy decision as NAPS (as opposed to APS) was in crisis for almost the entire length of my career with BA.

Hope those that remain dont lose any money over this change. What I suspect will happen is that any existing pension will be frozen and everyone will be put on a new money purchase scheme.
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Old 8th Sep 2017, 16:58   #10 (permalink)
 
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FlyMD
Quote:
And outside of Nigel, who exactly cares?........
Nigel is long gone its Rupert now days.
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Old 8th Sep 2017, 18:10   #11 (permalink)
 
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I've worked out my losses. If BA close NAPS I have got about 15 years in which I will need to find £20000 per year to fund my pension up to the level I was promised. An impossible task on my current wage. Either BA will have to give me huge pay rise or I will have to leave for a better paid job.
The alternative is a 30% drop in my expected pension.

I'm sure Mr Walsh on his multi million annual salary will not be effected.
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Old 8th Sep 2017, 19:07   #12 (permalink)
 
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It will be interesting to see how many pilots leave over the next few years. In my opinion, long haul is becoming unsustainable on a full time contract if you want to live a long and healthy life, JSS is going to remove considerable control, and now the pension is going too. If they close it on the final salary you are on right now, rather than making it such that you only have your current built up years but you use your actual final salary upon retirement, then I think people will likely stay, but just go part time. If they close it frozen on the salary you are on right now, I think we will see people leave. And realistically, I'm sure that's the option they're going for.
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Old 8th Sep 2017, 19:21   #13 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RAT 5 View Post
Because if BA can impose such a change then others will be watching and planning to do the same. This 'cost saving' attitude is not in isolation. But living where you do, your location, I can understand the blasť comment.
All the other companies imposed those changes years ago, BA were the last man standing and just as PP34 was a "commercial" reality so is this! Back in the real world these people will still have pensions the envy of most, the worst hit 15 year guys will still get 25% of their final salary plus how ever many years sluming it with us in BARP, I struggle to sympathies too much.
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Old 8th Sep 2017, 20:13   #14 (permalink)
 
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Final salary plan has become virtually unsustainable looking at the demographics. Defined contribution is, in my opinion, more fair.
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Old 8th Sep 2017, 20:40   #15 (permalink)
 
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Correct me if I am wrong but BA are looking to close NAPS to future payments and not closure of the entire scheme in itself. Members future contributions will go into BARP. The money put in will still be paid out to members and the 3.7 billion deficit should be covered over the next 10 years because BA is going to pump hundreds of millions into it to fill the black hole.....you never have anything until you have it and a pension can never be 100% secure. End of the day the talk of money being stolen is a bit off the mark. Is the reality not that people are taking out more than they ever put in?
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Old 8th Sep 2017, 21:05   #16 (permalink)
 
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DB pensions really are little better than pyramid schemes and rely on the young employees funding them to pay the pensioners. When they close the onus is put upon the employer to cover every eventuality without the employee being asked to share the hardship.
It can get to the point that the employer looks at the viability of the company when they are putting a huge amount into the pension scheme, with no discernible benefit to themselves or the success of the concern. I have seen the latter and the owners run away.
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Old 8th Sep 2017, 21:51   #17 (permalink)
 
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So this is part of cost saving measures as a result of the IT failures, according to the article. Interesting how the employees get shafted as a result of managerial incompetency. Foxtrot Oscar Alex Cruz, he couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery!
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Old 8th Sep 2017, 23:18   #18 (permalink)
 
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I can see a BMA & Monarch situation in development initiating. But with that kind of deficit, will the PPF be able to take it over? What are the chances of the PPF having to reduce payments to ALL its members to cover the scheme. Or have I just described a pension V1 cut ! Worst case scenario typical pilot. Always the pessimist.
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Old 8th Sep 2017, 23:58   #19 (permalink)
 
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PPF to step in used to require company going into administration... Although that didn't happen with Monarch so perhaps they could also be tempted with a stake in the company
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Old 9th Sep 2017, 08:09   #20 (permalink)
 
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BA/IAG are very profitable. Can't see how the PPF can get involved.
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