Easyjet pilot issues
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Working for Easyjet appears to be like being in an abusive relationship. Everybody outside the company can see how bad it is, but their pilots are brainwashed into the 'orange' culture, thinking it's the best job in the world and that they cannot do better. Very few people leave the company, despite the fact that near enough every pilot I know in the company does nothing but complain about it, about the long 4-sector days, the delays, discretion, roster changes, minimum rest, below inflation pay increases, not allowed to swap days off, next to zero overtime opportunities.
Working for another company, I've been flying for over four years and have never even been asked to go into discretion, nor have any of my acquaintances at other companies, including Ryanair. It's only those at easyJet that seem to have this issue.
I'm sure there will be plenty of easyJet pilots ready to defend the company, which will more or less prove my point.
Working for another company, I've been flying for over four years and have never even been asked to go into discretion, nor have any of my acquaintances at other companies, including Ryanair. It's only those at easyJet that seem to have this issue.
I'm sure there will be plenty of easyJet pilots ready to defend the company, which will more or less prove my point.
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I can confirm that during this summer some pressure has been received by crews on the phone during the duty, to help them make the decision to either work into their day off or exercize discretion, when this would lead to flights being cancelled.
I can also confirm the new Policy whereby a captain will have a meeting if a flight is cancelled because of his/her decision not to push beyond the limit (agreed FTLs and working into day off).
The pilot union of Easyjet pilots based in France wrote to management to require them to stop this. No answer in 3 weeks. Thus a press release was delivered to force the company to react. Well done in my opinion, as this can not become an accepted practice. Of course in the UK such action would be borderline, but it is good do see a union stand-up firmly against Something unacceptable.
Now I have heard that some meetings are to be held between the company and different unions this month. I hope common sense will prevail from management.
One last point about the title of the thread. I have seen / heard some interviews on TV with pilots from the SNPL Easyjet union: they have never said that flying with Easyjet is Dangerous. They claim it could become if pressure is exercized onto the pilots and therefore they ask upper management to react to ensure that Easyjet remains the safe airline it has always been.
I can also confirm the new Policy whereby a captain will have a meeting if a flight is cancelled because of his/her decision not to push beyond the limit (agreed FTLs and working into day off).
The pilot union of Easyjet pilots based in France wrote to management to require them to stop this. No answer in 3 weeks. Thus a press release was delivered to force the company to react. Well done in my opinion, as this can not become an accepted practice. Of course in the UK such action would be borderline, but it is good do see a union stand-up firmly against Something unacceptable.
Now I have heard that some meetings are to be held between the company and different unions this month. I hope common sense will prevail from management.
One last point about the title of the thread. I have seen / heard some interviews on TV with pilots from the SNPL Easyjet union: they have never said that flying with Easyjet is Dangerous. They claim it could become if pressure is exercized onto the pilots and therefore they ask upper management to react to ensure that Easyjet remains the safe airline it has always been.
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I wonder about the management after the recent TV programme! The comments the "chief" pilot made about female pilots I thought wow naive at best, very offensive at worst! I would expect to be sacked for those comments, on the line let alone on TV! It was embarrassing!
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Everybody outside the company can see how bad it is, but their pilots are brainwashed into the 'orange' culture, thinking it's the best job in the world and that they cannot do better.
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EasyJet are the only airline that don't seem to understand this and just cancel flights when the standby list dries up. Bullying people into going into discretion is not the answer.
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Load of 
you say ,what about the post from OATnetjets and the French pilot union letter.
Trust me,I wish it wasn't true but it is and it's going to get worse unless BALPA and the Uk pilots grow a pair and do something about it .
I repeat ,ask your BALPA if it's true that a number of UK CP have been placed on non flying suspension and disciplined for not exercising discretion.
Ask the question come back here with a simple apology rather than an insult .
You won't like what you hear though ,sad times .
you say ,what about the post from OATnetjets and the French pilot union letter.Trust me,I wish it wasn't true but it is and it's going to get worse unless BALPA and the Uk pilots grow a pair and do something about it .
I repeat ,ask your BALPA if it's true that a number of UK CP have been placed on non flying suspension and disciplined for not exercising discretion.
Ask the question come back here with a simple apology rather than an insult .
You won't like what you hear though ,sad times .
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its a roster code NOFLY .You get it if you've been involved in a significant incident that needs investigated or a manager has deemed you to be unfit to fly until they've investigated your conduct .
It happens more than you might think .
That is "what the hell a no flying suspension is" it may not even be legal under employment law as you are effectively deemed guilty until innocent , however this is now the easyJet way .
It is worth noting that the head of the flight ops in the CAA is an ex easyjet manager , another senior manager has recently left easyjet to go there and that the flight ops inspectors that are responsible for looking after easyjet also keep their flying current (in many cases) by picking sectors to fly on easyJet aeroplanes .
It happens more than you might think .
That is "what the hell a no flying suspension is" it may not even be legal under employment law as you are effectively deemed guilty until innocent , however this is now the easyJet way .
It is worth noting that the head of the flight ops in the CAA is an ex easyjet manager , another senior manager has recently left easyjet to go there and that the flight ops inspectors that are responsible for looking after easyjet also keep their flying current (in many cases) by picking sectors to fly on easyJet aeroplanes .
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Nil Further,
Please don't confuse matters and get your facts right.
The decision to NFLY can be taken by a Manager responsible for Safety if you file an ASR. If you 'forget' to file or were simply unaware of the circumstances then you could be NFLY'ed by a Liaison Officer. Liaison Officer's work confidentially and are completely autonomous from Management. They exist to further flight safety.They can be contacted for advice on any safety related matter and that includes issues concerning any perceived 'underhand' Management activities. Or indeed any deeply personal matter that you may not wish to discuss with your Boss, that could perhaps affect flight safety. And yes they could NFLY you as a result of such a conversation. This would be completely confidential. Even if your Boss contacts an FCLO for info' (flight crew liaison officer) he could be politely told where to go!
Now, if you cross swords with Management and say routinely refuse discretion, then you can expect questions to be asked. Nobody wants to leave 186 pax screwed down route unless there is a very good reason. But there are always a few who want to make a point. Management can also No fly you for their own non safety reasons and they are within their rights to MEET you to discuss circumstances. Is this unreasonable?
But it's recognised also that this Summer has not lived up to the many promises.Over 400 cancellations in July? (no big French ATC strikes) And engaging the troops in the right way has always been a bit of a challenge for years. Good Management does not require 'bullying'.
As for French issues this has to be taken in context. There are contractual aspects which include the legal right to refuse to work into a day off. And many do and that is their right.
It's one of the facts that needs to be understood and Managed.
You cannot run the French operation with a Luton/Gatwick mentality.
The 'Nuclear' option that SNPL took without reference to members was not
appreciated by everybody IMO.
Please don't confuse matters and get your facts right.
The decision to NFLY can be taken by a Manager responsible for Safety if you file an ASR. If you 'forget' to file or were simply unaware of the circumstances then you could be NFLY'ed by a Liaison Officer. Liaison Officer's work confidentially and are completely autonomous from Management. They exist to further flight safety.They can be contacted for advice on any safety related matter and that includes issues concerning any perceived 'underhand' Management activities. Or indeed any deeply personal matter that you may not wish to discuss with your Boss, that could perhaps affect flight safety. And yes they could NFLY you as a result of such a conversation. This would be completely confidential. Even if your Boss contacts an FCLO for info' (flight crew liaison officer) he could be politely told where to go!
Now, if you cross swords with Management and say routinely refuse discretion, then you can expect questions to be asked. Nobody wants to leave 186 pax screwed down route unless there is a very good reason. But there are always a few who want to make a point. Management can also No fly you for their own non safety reasons and they are within their rights to MEET you to discuss circumstances. Is this unreasonable?
But it's recognised also that this Summer has not lived up to the many promises.Over 400 cancellations in July? (no big French ATC strikes) And engaging the troops in the right way has always been a bit of a challenge for years. Good Management does not require 'bullying'.
As for French issues this has to be taken in context. There are contractual aspects which include the legal right to refuse to work into a day off. And many do and that is their right.
It's one of the facts that needs to be understood and Managed.
You cannot run the French operation with a Luton/Gatwick mentality.
The 'Nuclear' option that SNPL took without reference to members was not
appreciated by everybody IMO.
If I was routinely declining to exercise discretion then the only question to be answered was 'why am I routinely being rostered into discretion?'. That is a question for the Ops dept, not the pilot.
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Binder
I am quite clear in my facts .I note the liberal use of the word Boss , one of the squadron are you ?
If i follow your argument correctly ,you are saying that it is OK for management to discipline pilots who routinely refuse discretion ?
All the stuff you write about FCLO is irrelevant to this discussion .
I stand by my statement that a lamentable turn of events has occurred in easyjet where the Chief Pilot appears to have decided on a new policy of questioning pilots who refuse to operate in discretion or in some cases in to their day off .
Quite how any professional pilot (i assume you are) can come on here and defend such behaviour from a company that was until recently seen as a very decent, professional outfit by most airline pilots in the world is beyond me .
What is manifestly obvious is that the summer has been a total disaster commercially .
The money folk have leaned on the ops folks and this is the result .
It is a sad sad day for all easyJet pilots that this is what we have become and i wonder what the next tactic will be or when we will finally as a group of responsible professionals say enough is enough .
I suspect the only people who have an issue with the SNPL statement are those whose entire life ,status and persona is built around the fact they are an airline pilot accordingly any slight to that is taken as a personal insult .
"First they came for the socialists ,but i am not a socialist ......."
I am quite clear in my facts .I note the liberal use of the word Boss , one of the squadron are you ?
If i follow your argument correctly ,you are saying that it is OK for management to discipline pilots who routinely refuse discretion ?
All the stuff you write about FCLO is irrelevant to this discussion .
I stand by my statement that a lamentable turn of events has occurred in easyjet where the Chief Pilot appears to have decided on a new policy of questioning pilots who refuse to operate in discretion or in some cases in to their day off .
Quite how any professional pilot (i assume you are) can come on here and defend such behaviour from a company that was until recently seen as a very decent, professional outfit by most airline pilots in the world is beyond me .
What is manifestly obvious is that the summer has been a total disaster commercially .
The money folk have leaned on the ops folks and this is the result .
It is a sad sad day for all easyJet pilots that this is what we have become and i wonder what the next tactic will be or when we will finally as a group of responsible professionals say enough is enough .
I suspect the only people who have an issue with the SNPL statement are those whose entire life ,status and persona is built around the fact they are an airline pilot accordingly any slight to that is taken as a personal insult .
"First they came for the socialists ,but i am not a socialist ......."
Last edited by Nil further; 25th Aug 2017 at 18:42. Reason: Incorrect translation of Pastor Niemöller
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Nil Further,
If you feel FCLO's are not relevant to your post then you don't grasp all the tools that are at your disposal or how they function. Of course I don't condone the action you refer to by Management. If this is occurring then it's a very serious matter and should be booted straight to the top.
This has been another one of those Summers but despite this i've had three discretion reports to sign for. Full time roster. Less than last year.
I have been called out to cover guys/gals who were refusing possible discretion (as is their right) for duties that ultimately would not have led them into discretion. Unless it's on their last day....never called for that!
I've also wasted lots and lots of time discussing possible discretion days with crew only to find we were well within at the end of the day.
Your comment regarding SNPL is curious. I've not spoken to any colleague yet who thinks the action was appropriate. It's not the usual way here.
EGPF if I was presented with your situation then I would agree with you and pursue this through Management/SNPL
Nil Further please don't insult me I am not of the Squadron. The Light Blue 'Banter' has it's place. But not here.
If you feel FCLO's are not relevant to your post then you don't grasp all the tools that are at your disposal or how they function. Of course I don't condone the action you refer to by Management. If this is occurring then it's a very serious matter and should be booted straight to the top.
This has been another one of those Summers but despite this i've had three discretion reports to sign for. Full time roster. Less than last year.
I have been called out to cover guys/gals who were refusing possible discretion (as is their right) for duties that ultimately would not have led them into discretion. Unless it's on their last day....never called for that!
I've also wasted lots and lots of time discussing possible discretion days with crew only to find we were well within at the end of the day.
Your comment regarding SNPL is curious. I've not spoken to any colleague yet who thinks the action was appropriate. It's not the usual way here.
EGPF if I was presented with your situation then I would agree with you and pursue this through Management/SNPL
Nil Further please don't insult me I am not of the Squadron. The Light Blue 'Banter' has it's place. But not here.
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Not ez specific, could be any airline. Last time I was booked in for an operation at my local hospital it was weekdays only. Last time I wanted a plumbers/electricians/doctors/gardeners visit it was weekdays only & 08.00 - 17.00. Last time I wanted a chat with a CP/HOT/CEO/MD/CFO etc it was week days only 09.00 - 17.00. No discretion on their behalf. It was a NO NO. Unavailable. Last time I wanted time off for a dentist/doctor appointment it was not allowed if it disrupted the roster pattern: use your days off. Single days off for a wedding; not allowed. single days off for a school kids performance; not allowed. etc. etc.
Reap what you sow.
If you want give & take it needs to be by both sides in both directions. It is not; so don't be surprised when someone spits the dummy. It shouldn't happen, but where is the root cause? The subject is not so simple as to have only one finger pointed in one direction.
Reap what you sow.
If you want give & take it needs to be by both sides in both directions. It is not; so don't be surprised when someone spits the dummy. It shouldn't happen, but where is the root cause? The subject is not so simple as to have only one finger pointed in one direction.
My OMA( not Orange) says this about discretion-"The use of commander’s discretion is considered exceptional and where possible should be avoided at home base and/or company hubs.
The decision of the commander is considered as sacrosanct and ABC Airlines has adopted a non-punitive approach in dealing with discretionary events"
It is not a rostering tool and should not be used to cover up failings in the crew establishment or poor rostering. If through no fault of your own there is an incident whilst exercising it them the regulator will look at the pilot as to why he felt able to exercise it. Any supporting paperwork or telephone call from a mamager exerting pressure would obviously attract their interest and in my opinion should be subject to a disciplinary process from the AOC holder. Discretion belongs to the Captain, having consulted his crew , not some greasypole climber in an office.
The decision of the commander is considered as sacrosanct and ABC Airlines has adopted a non-punitive approach in dealing with discretionary events"
It is not a rostering tool and should not be used to cover up failings in the crew establishment or poor rostering. If through no fault of your own there is an incident whilst exercising it them the regulator will look at the pilot as to why he felt able to exercise it. Any supporting paperwork or telephone call from a mamager exerting pressure would obviously attract their interest and in my opinion should be subject to a disciplinary process from the AOC holder. Discretion belongs to the Captain, having consulted his crew , not some greasypole climber in an office.
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I've no doubt EZY's insurers are pouring over the posts on this thread. Will be an expensive insurance program with either their existing or other insurers if they don't unwind the behaviour. Reckless.
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One problem with the definitions used in discretion extension decisions is the use of the wording. "Are all crew members fit to continue the duty beyond the FTL's?"
In other spheres the use of fatigue to call un-fit for duty is the threshold. Too tired is not enough. In the discretion extension case fatigue is not mentioned; it is fit to....
Management have the opinion that if you are not fatigued then you are fit, and you do not transition from fit to fatigued at the FTL limit. You need to make the decision, perhaps 2-3 hours in advance, how you will feel at the end of the extension. Impossible. You can only say how you feel now, and speculate. Managers don't believe you can be tired enough at end of FTL to decide accurately and so should continue as required.
What they don't have any knowledge of, nor interest in, is what duties you have worked previously, how much sleep you achieved before this one, what is your overall condition. They take it as a given that their non-fatiguing roster patterns, and your immaculate sleep management family programs, delivered you to work 100% fit & sharp. The extra mile should be taken in your stride and any refusal is tantamount to a silent strike.
That attitude needs to be addressed and changed PDQ and it will best happen from the XAA's or even EASA. Dream on.
In other spheres the use of fatigue to call un-fit for duty is the threshold. Too tired is not enough. In the discretion extension case fatigue is not mentioned; it is fit to....
Management have the opinion that if you are not fatigued then you are fit, and you do not transition from fit to fatigued at the FTL limit. You need to make the decision, perhaps 2-3 hours in advance, how you will feel at the end of the extension. Impossible. You can only say how you feel now, and speculate. Managers don't believe you can be tired enough at end of FTL to decide accurately and so should continue as required.
What they don't have any knowledge of, nor interest in, is what duties you have worked previously, how much sleep you achieved before this one, what is your overall condition. They take it as a given that their non-fatiguing roster patterns, and your immaculate sleep management family programs, delivered you to work 100% fit & sharp. The extra mile should be taken in your stride and any refusal is tantamount to a silent strike.
That attitude needs to be addressed and changed PDQ and it will best happen from the XAA's or even EASA. Dream on.
It would appear that easy still do not engage with the pilots in a professional manner. Having been there when there were only 8 aircraft there was always a big disconnect between the pilots and orange culture. Essentially the prevailing mentality was that the pilots were overpaid prima donnas. Plus ca change. The orange culture by the way seemed to reward 'managers' with tax free share schemes etc while shafting the pilot group. Most of the pilot group had the inate intelligence to see through the orange concept. Essentially just like Ryanair while pretending to be slightly more touchy- feely.
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The "orange culture" can be summarised thus; Get the employees to work as hard as possible whilst at all times seeking to reduce the costs associated with them (Pretty much what every company out there wants to do all the time lets be honest). Attempt to add depth to this by printing large words on crew room walls & company literature; "Integrity", "Honesty", "Dynamic", "Pioneering" etc etc.
It always makes me smile when companies use all this corporate mumbo jumbo (which company doesn't want to profess it has integrity?!). There's often a huge disconnect between the stated culture and the actual culture.
It's hardly limited to easyJet either. There are few companies that, behind closed doors, really commit to their lofty principles and mission statements.
It always makes me smile when companies use all this corporate mumbo jumbo (which company doesn't want to profess it has integrity?!). There's often a huge disconnect between the stated culture and the actual culture.
It's hardly limited to easyJet either. There are few companies that, behind closed doors, really commit to their lofty principles and mission statements.