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Old 4th Jan 2017, 19:43   #101 (permalink)
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Near sheep!
Posts: 843
Look at the various t's and c's and do what is right for you and your family. Some of the posts I have read are insulting to your family.
Forget status and all the meaningless rubbish, family first!!
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Old 4th Jan 2017, 20:49   #102 (permalink)

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I work for a UK 'charter' airline - I have 5 days of rostered flights between now and the end of February, along with a standby block that I almost certainly won't get called for. I have all but one weekend between now and the end of April booked off, and have three weeks of Summer leave confirmed, which were the exact dates I requested and were granted instantly.
you'll be doing most of your flying during the summer, working 7 on 1 off, 7 on 2 off or your employer has seriously lost the plot
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Old 4th Jan 2017, 21:28   #103 (permalink)
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: england
Posts: 434
I can remember talking to Monarch mates telling me how little work they used to fly for a pretty decent salary. If I worked for an airline that wasn't flying me 700-850 hours a year, I'd be getting pretty concerned because the airlines that do sweat their assets are going to eat your lunch.
Doing what's best for your family includes job security I'd say. Anyway, good luck to all concerned. Let's hope we all have a job at the end of our career and a pension that pays out.
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Old 4th Jan 2017, 22:38   #104 (permalink)
Join Date: May 2016
Location: The EU
Posts: 15
you'll be doing most of your flying during the summer, working 7 on 1 off, 7 on 2 off or your employer has seriously lost the plot
I'm aware that Summer is busier than Winter, but I'd far rather do 8 quiet months and 4 busy, than a constant procession of long 4-sector days every weekend, every month. My life has been far healthier and less stressful since I switched from (low-cost) scheduled to charter.
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Old 4th Jan 2017, 23:39   #105 (permalink)
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Honkytown
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Originally Posted by 4468 View Post
Hi McNugget

I comfortably exceeded your 18 days a month, both last month and this. Though I accept occasionally I won't

Why would I be interested in what you made? I have no idea what it costs you to live? As for me, I live in 3 acres with 5 stables, in a Northern county. My property cost little more than twice my annual salary!! My wife and I are both within 20 minutes of our parents, and my kids see their cousins most weekends.

US carriers are frequently protected from bankruptcy by Chapter 11. They lurch from good times to furlough with monotonous regularity! I know which I prefer!

So, do you think there's room for improvement?
BA SH wouldn't give me 18 days off a month. That's the crux of the OPs discussion.

I'm sure you get lots of time off - then again, as you repeatedly remind us, you're at the top of the seniority tree.

I too have a several acre property in the UK. If I so choose, I could spend more time in it each month than a BA SH pilot. Again, the crux of the OP's 'beef'.

I didn't drag CX into this discussion. I merely offered to answer a question on it.

If you think that BA SH salary is good for the workload involved, then I am surprised, that's all. I think it is quite poor. The retirement contributions are in need of a good boost, too.

I realise that given your tenure and joining date at BA, you think they can do no wrong.

I think your use of 'monotonous regularity' is slightly loose. It happened since the turning of the century, but before those dark years, and since, US legacy contracts have wiped the floor with BA and VS.

I used them as a reference. I am not American either.
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Old 5th Jan 2017, 00:10   #106 (permalink)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 282
Quality. this thread is hilarious :-))

"I am considerrablay richar than yaaaaooouu"

I would blow my own trumpet, but I don't even have a trumpet, or an acre, or a stable, or 40 days off a month
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Old 5th Jan 2017, 01:06   #107 (permalink)
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cloud Cookoo Land
Posts: 1,191
Pilots talking about possessions. Whatever next? Move along to the next cliche.

To the OP, leave BA. It'll be a far more enthralling conversation for your FO to be involved in. He or she is tired of listening to stories of acreage, porsches and converted Victorian farm houses.
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Old 5th Jan 2017, 09:54   #108 (permalink)
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: by the seaside
Age: 67
Posts: 586
Left BEA in 78 for long haul but because of the retirement of the VC10 chucked in BA. In my six years in BEA we lost eight aircraft..absolute rubbish management.
There were four great carriers then; Cathay, Swissair, Pan Am and TWA. Passed the Cathay interview but took Swissair.
Doubled salary but tripled emoluments.
New American aircraft, well maintained and clean, great cabin crew relationship, and flew jets in a way that none of my mates experienced bar those on Concorde.
But we were expats and foreigners.
Wife couldn't handle the racism nor the isolation...daughter beaten up at school and if you haven't experienced an expat community then don't.
Went from 15 days off to 9 and 9- 20 nights away.
But got a minimum of a month off every school summer holidays, had an au pair so that my wife could come on trips as did my kids and then took up to two months unpaid leave as had the income to do so.
Did it work and would I do it again?
Who knows but many of my friends in BA had a lot of family problems, colleagues visiting their wives, kids on drugs and in prison....
Imho put your family's well being first.
Three of those carriers are gone.
BA nearly went in the 80s.
Met a FR skipper who was on three four day trips per month on 100grand net...now that appealed to me.
PS..it took me 20 years to get a command.
Good luck
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Old 5th Jan 2017, 11:53   #109 (permalink)
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 31
I apologise to those that thought I was willy waving and richer than yaaaaooouu, it wasn't meant that way. I know if I had joined Cathay I would be a lot richer than I am now. I was simply pointing to quality of life compared to that I could experience in HKG. Don't get me wrong I love HKG but only to visit even though it costs me an arm and a leg when I do. All off-topic anyway.

As I say, lets encourage those that are unhappy to leave that way terms and conditions may improve and not be viewed as quite poor. Problem is everyone at BA got blackmailed in to taking a hit (SH especially) to bring BMI into mainline rather than face the threat of it being run as a IAG competitor.
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Old 5th Jan 2017, 17:40   #110 (permalink)
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: nowhere inparticular.
Posts: 156
I was a British Airways European Division apprentice aircraft mechanic in the 1970s. I left during the severance scheme in the early 1980s along with my father who was BEA from 1949. My mother was also BEA when they first formed at Northolt after the war.
I got my PPL and IMC rating at Booker and went to The United States in 1981 to get my FAA Comm/Inst/Multi as I saw no future in Britain for me.

I have been flying for a very large American cargo airline for over 30 years and Captain for 26 of them. I can honestly say that I have had the absolute best career imaginable. They have been fantastic to work for. The pay and conditions are brilliant. There are 13 28 day pay periods a year. I work two blocks of four nights a pay period, and drop five blocks for vacation and one for training a year. How many people do you know who made themselves deca millionaires from doing this?

The person I started flying with is a Captain on the 747-400 with British Airways. When I look at his schedule I cringe at the thought of doing that much flying.

One of my dearly departed friends was British Airways Channel Islands Division co-pilot on the Vickers Viscount. He was having an affair with the wife of a prominent politician. Upon the discovery of it he was fired. He then went to British Island Airways on the Hanley Page Herald. Again let go, because of the consensual affair. His next stop was British Air Ferries on the ATL98 Carvair and later the Viscount out of Southend.
He then threw the towel in with Britain and came to the United States where his first job was as Captain with Go Leasing who had the largest fleet of Vickers Viscounts in the World. They were leased out to rock bands for tours. Nobody cared who you had affairs with. We flew together for a few years before he retired.

I was once in the American Airlines simulator doing some contract training for another airline. I met a former British Airways Lockheed Tristar pilot who had an American wife. He much preferred his new life with American Airlines to his old one with British Airways.

Now that British Airways is run by Vueling's management team, it is just another a low cost carrier with a big sounding name.
Same problem at Emirates. Once they took the bail out money from Qatar they were slaves to the lender, and they cracked the whip on the employees. I understand it's now intolerable. We have hired several Emirates Captains recently.

Last edited by button push ignored; 5th Jan 2017 at 18:04.
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Old 6th Jan 2017, 16:24   #111 (permalink)
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 35
Posts: 244
There is always 1......callsign kilo thanks for the tip.

For the record take home in the left seat as a junior captain is little more than most F/O's.

I have no interest in a Porsche, a big house or any other crap that you wish to broad brush me with. I have a concern for my kids and my wife. When you are lucky enough to have met someone special and you have seen friends die young then it shifts your priorities. Like people have said this is not about money or about what others have got. It's about meeting the needs of your family both in person and financially.
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Old 6th Jan 2017, 18:15   #112 (permalink)
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hundred Acre Wood
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Originally Posted by McNugget View Post

4468 has a seriously blinkered view of the world.
Sadly, a characteristic that is all-too-common amongst the blue bloods....
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Old 6th Jan 2017, 18:20   #113 (permalink)
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: LGW
Posts: 146
Bex88, your last post was spot on.

Money doesn't make you happy. It certainly makes life a lot easier but it doesn't make you happy. I have also seen to many people die to young and who in their live were obsessed with money. They died with lots of cash in the bank to fund all the plans they had for when they retired.

Whilst I don't work for BA I can't comment on them specifically. I work for a charter gone scheduled UK airline whose work is busier in the summer then in the winter. However I still did 800 hours a year with hardly any nights away from home. I am in my mid to late thirties and work 75%, which means a block of 7 days off every 28 days. My other half has the same Part Time block so we are guaranteed to have a week off together each 28 days. It is absolutely brilliant. Yep, money is slightly less but still earning more than enough to have a nice lifestyle. I can highly recommend going Part Time.
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Old 6th Jan 2017, 20:39   #114 (permalink)
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: York
Posts: 570
I have no interest in a Porsche, a big house or any other crap that you wish to broad brush me with. I have a concern for my kids and my wife. When you are lucky enough to have met someone special and you have seen friends die young then it shifts your priorities. Like people have said this is not about money or about what others have got. It's about meeting the needs of your family both in person and financially.
Couldn't agree more!

Precisely why I choose to live in a cheap part of the country! That way I can also choose to spend the absolute minimum time at work! I don't need lots of money. I don't want a flash car! My expenses are small. Yes my tax is a bummer, but again, that's my choice. I COULD eliminate that, but my family and I value the UK life/employment safeguards. Many other places are great to visit. (And I have many times!) Wouldn't want to live, even less work there though. Of course because I chose not to live the ex-pat life, my family also have the joy of seeing their relies as often as they wish!

They're happy = I'm happy!

Before anyone asks. Yes this is all possible on SH. Ask me how I know?!

Despite some claiming they know my 'seniority', I don't believe I've ever given any indication? Nor is it important! Nor is it relevant, what fleet I'm on?

Don't have an expensive lifestyle, (ok, or maybe kids!!!) and this job could, with good choices, deliver a perfectly reasonable life!!

The prejudice against BA is rather surprising when one considers the numbers of applicants every time a window opens! Maybe all applicants are stupid, who have done no research. No 'due diligence'. Though I accept bex88 may never have actually wanted to fly for BA. Maybe significant?

Good luck whatever y'all choose.
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Old 6th Jan 2017, 21:02   #115 (permalink)
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: uk
Posts: 511
At the end of the day, if you are working for BA,VS,TOM or TCX on a legacy contract, it is a case of same poo, different flavour. Nothing in the mainstream airline industry is going to turn the clock back 35 years to better times, so all that you are left with is working the system to your best advantage. Seems from the above posters, including myself, PT is the only way to control your life. I'm sorry, but at the age I am now, the thought of doing back to back early starts is exhausting just to think about. But, 15 years ago, I'm glad I suffered it to be home for bath and book time. Sadly, at the time, I couldn't afford to go PT, and the industry was much more resistant to flexible working patterns. Odd, that it is something from EU that actually did us a big favour.
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Old 6th Jan 2017, 21:53   #116 (permalink)
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 35
Posts: 244
4468. Just to be clear that I am pleased to be flying for BA but my personal life is paying the price. The many posts on here will certainly help as I try to find a solution before it's gone.

I have no prejudice against BA

Last edited by bex88; 6th Jan 2017 at 22:15.
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Old 6th Jan 2017, 23:44   #117 (permalink)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 282

Just to clarify I and I think some others were just laughing at the horses, stables and who's got the best time off top trumps game some others were playing -not directed at you. I reckon yours is an interesting post. Food for thought . Crack on talking about it. Balls to the detractors. The more people talk honestly about how they find jobs impact their lives the better.
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Old 7th Jan 2017, 09:11   #118 (permalink)
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,454
Have you spoken to BA?.
What about a Training position or is that all at weekends also.
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Old 7th Jan 2017, 10:33   #119 (permalink)
Join Date: May 2006
Location: UK, South East
Posts: 54
Training is spread evenly throughout the month with a mixture of sims and flying (if you're a TC) or sims only if you are a TCP.

It's reinvigorated my love and interest in the job. Every day is a challenge in some way, I learn LOADS from watching how other people fly aircraft (Eye opening after 20+ years in the job), and it can be an incredibly rewarding occupation. I can highly recommend it.

There is the significant amount of hoop jumping and courses to be passed first mind which was extremely hard work but worth it in the end.
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Old 7th Jan 2017, 18:18   #120 (permalink)
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Near sheep!
Posts: 843
Bex....go to Thomson at a Base near you. I reckon you'll get all, you need for your family. The quiet winter will make up for the busy summer.
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