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Old 1st Jan 2017, 09:03   #81 (permalink)


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Crikey,

4468 has a seriously blinkered view of the world.

Those captain figures, both junior and senior, are deeply underwhelming.

Hadn't checked up on them for some years. Oh dear.
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Old 1st Jan 2017, 14:38   #82 (permalink)
 
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4468, love that 5-a-side ex wifes comment.
I think that's one of the things the OP is trying to avoid, as even on 145k, once the ex is putting your little darlings through private schools and you paying her mortgage until she is 65, while you try to set up home in a Barratt semi with a girl 10 years younger who still wants to breed, there ain't gonna be a whole lot left! ;-)
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Old 2nd Jan 2017, 00:17   #83 (permalink)
 
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The reality is that it will suit some and it won't suit others.

I have two close friends that were colleagues with me at FR who were both in the LHS in UK bases on a permanent contract.

They left just last year to join BA on the 74.

Both of them are seriously considering their options at the moment.

It's a lifestyle choice and the simple fact is that they both miss the home time they once had on a 5-4 and both have taken considerable pay cuts in the short term.

Having said that BA will not be short of applicants despite what's said on here. Three of the five FOs I flew with this week are swimming in the hold pool and won't think twice about leaving if the call does come within their 18 month stint .However....

They are not sitting in their mid thirties like me or my two ex colleagues previously mentioned.

Don't get me wrong. Yes it's the best gig in the UK overall. But it simply won't work for everyone.
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Old 2nd Jan 2017, 12:10   #84 (permalink)
 
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I'd sit down with your Mrs and explain your emasculation. If she is a good person, she will help. I've flown with too many people who haven't voiced this. Being an engaged father is tough in our job, and much of the disengagement is self-fuelled, but you need help to become involved.
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Old 3rd Jan 2017, 08:12   #85 (permalink)
 
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Some others have mentioned this previously, but have you considered going part- time. I would recommend you stay with BA and look at all the available options to improve your work lifestyle balance.
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Old 3rd Jan 2017, 13:19   #86 (permalink)
 
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Do your future 60 year old self a favour and stick with BA - part time wide body long haul skipper with LHR base is, in my opinion, the only way to have a long career in this industry as things stand right now. Everyone is different but several earlies in a row and 4 sector days is a young man's game in my view.
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Old 3rd Jan 2017, 15:53   #87 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McNugget View Post
Crikey,

4468 has a seriously blinkered view of the world.

Those captain figures, both junior and senior, are deeply underwhelming.

Hadn't checked up on them for some years. Oh dear.

You're not kidding.

Would you recommend looking at Cathay?

What's the earning potential in HKG these days?
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Old 3rd Jan 2017, 16:50   #88 (permalink)
 
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Depends if you're on the Airbus or Boeing. They do so much overtime on the 777 which isn't hard due to the ULH nature of the flying, a friend of mine who even though being C scale said he earnt 160,000 HKD in December! This is including massive overtime mind you.
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Old 3rd Jan 2017, 17:10   #89 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
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Such an interesting thread!

I have to say I am looking at moving myself to a more stable family friendly airline, and easyJet is on my radar!
Every one is unquie, some want money, some want the status, and some want the lifestyle.

I for one want the lifestyle.... but you have to do what is best for you.

I have heard of several BA pilots who applied and are looking at moving to Virgin, as rated 747 pilots, so maybe the lifestyle on long haul may not be that much better as junior pilot.
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Old 3rd Jan 2017, 18:54   #90 (permalink)
 
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i bet not one single pilot this calendar year leaves BA as a Captain for another airline. People say a lot of crap on the flight deck when in full on whinge mode.
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Old 3rd Jan 2017, 19:49   #91 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Threethirty View Post
Depends if you're on the Airbus or Boeing. They do so much overtime on the 777 which isn't hard due to the ULH nature of the flying, a friend of mine who even though being C scale said he earnt 160,000 HKD in December! This is including massive overtime mind you.
I trust that he's an FO.

I thought there was an overtime ban
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Old 3rd Jan 2017, 22:29   #92 (permalink)
 
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Capt Ecureuill
Quote:
Would you recommend looking at Cathay?
There's a Fragrant Harbour forum on PPRuNe, where all the Cathay boys and girls post what they think of their airline. Well worth a look.

Here's an informative post from 4 days ago:
Quote:
This airline is starting to look more and more like the US airlines that entered bankruptcy in the 80's. Cut, cut, cut, abuse staff, abuse staff, absurd rationalizations, excuses, lies, losing passengers, tarnished reputations, blah, blah, blah. Eventually, some grown-ups took over the management (of most of them) and started to reinvest in their product AND employees. Sadly, the myopic bunch running this airline are deaf, dumb and blind to any of this. The "Fall of Cathay Pacific" is well into it's last chapters. Someone please turn out the last dim lightbulb when it's all over. Thank you.
On a different 'accommodation' thread, another poster asks for tips on how to live in a property of 50 square feet.

Best of luck!

Meanwhile, (to paraphrase a tag line from a well known reality TV show!) bex88's search for an airline better than BA, continues!!

Now, I dunno but, maybe he can cross Cathay off his list, for an improvement in quality of life?

Last edited by 4468; 3rd Jan 2017 at 22:46.
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Old 4th Jan 2017, 08:43   #93 (permalink)
 
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Just my two cents worth, I left BA in 2009 when the VR was on offer. It was primarily driven by the want to move back 'down-under' where I would be able to achieve a better lifestyle for my Family. I loved the flying with BA but as others have said it was quite hard hitting on my Wife considering I was away a lot. From a lifestyle point of view I have never regretted the move as I have gone to a job as a Training Captain on the A320 where night stops are quite rare, at times I think my Wife wishes I was away a bit more :-) I get to spend lots of time with the kids and my quality of life is streets ahead of what I could obtain around London or gain from a commuting lifestyle. The downsides are:

-Nowhere near the career path of BA, apart from checking I am as high as I can go, no fleet moves here, if I want to go Long Haul anytime in the future then I have to change airlines.

-Leave and days off are on a rotating system, no bidding whatsoever! So I have missed the odd important occasion due to no ability to bid! I have to take the kids out of school for most family holidays as you can forget time off during the school holidays.

-No other general perks, Staff Travel no where near as good (you will miss it!) No paxing in business class etc.... Standard of hotels and 'allowances' no where near as good.

Overall I am really happy with the move and from a family point of view would never go back (even if I could), it has come at the expense though of a career that offered stability and a great variety of opportunities! Everytime I see that BA tail in Sydney I do get very sentimental and generally annoy all my FO's telling them what a great time I had at BA.

By all means if you are going to prioritize family then a move maybe sensible but you will have times in your new job where you regret it! For me though the improved lifestyle was worth it.
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Old 4th Jan 2017, 12:06   #94 (permalink)
 
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QUOTE FROM 3 GREENS I bet not one single pilot this calendar year leaves BA as a Captain for another airline. People say a lot of crap on the flight deck when in full on whinge mode.

A friend of mine is leaving this month for easy jet and another left last month.
So thats 2 i know in 2 months
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Old 4th Jan 2017, 13:27   #95 (permalink)
 
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Likewise; I know of two skippers on the A320 that are leaving, one to Jet2 and the other to easyJet, both as DECs.
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Old 4th Jan 2017, 13:42   #96 (permalink)


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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4468 View Post
Now, I dunno but, maybe he can cross Cathay off his list, for an improvement in quality of life?
Now, I dunno but, I'd be willing to wager short haul BA would be a huge reduction in quality of life for me. I get 18 days off a month.

This isn't about my employer, though. It was pointing out that pay is seriously underwhelming in the U.K.

As for cash, I've just paid my tax bill. If you'd like to know what I made, just say.

Friends in the US Legacy carriers are making $200k without breaking a sweat as year 3 FOs.

4468, do you think there is room for improvement?
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Old 4th Jan 2017, 14:35   #97 (permalink)
 
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Will you stop putting off unhappy BA pilots from leaving... lets encourage them to go*

* for my own purely selfish reasons you understand.


McNugget, I'm sure we would all love to get the US legacy carriers $$$$$'s but as I haven't a green card I can't. I'm not clear on the point you're making.

As for Cathay, is your lifestyle on your mega-buck salary good? I only ask as I didn't bother turning up for the Cathay interview many years ago in a time you guys call the "good times".

Me, I'm happy watching the deer whilst looking out over 6 acres of fields and woodland in Southern England also with 18 days off this month..
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Old 4th Jan 2017, 17:10   #98 (permalink)
 
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Hi McNugget

I comfortably exceeded your 18 days a month, both last month and this. Though I accept occasionally I won't

Why would I be interested in what you made? I have no idea what it costs you to live? As for me, I live in 3 acres with 5 stables, in a Northern county. My property cost little more than twice my annual salary!! My wife and I are both within 20 minutes of our parents, and my kids see their cousins most weekends.

US carriers are frequently protected from bankruptcy by Chapter 11. They lurch from good times to furlough with monotonous regularity! I know which I prefer!

So, do you think there's room for improvement?
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Old 4th Jan 2017, 17:40   #99 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
i bet not one single pilot this calendar year leaves BA as a Captain for another airline. People say a lot of crap on the flight deck when in full on whinge mode.
If you are talking LH Capt yep i would agree with you it's highly unlikely, SH however there will definitely be some leaving as others have confirmed above. I've a good friend whose a Capt on SH, he flew with 4 junior FO's before starting their Command courses, they openly admitted that their plan was 1000hrs LHS and then DEC LGW with Easy and the accompanying 20k-25k pay rise. If you don't want LH at BA and want to be home most nights and not night stopping round Europe who could blame them.

The focus of this whole post is Family & Lifestyle and for some (NOT ALL) you can't achieve this with BA without taking a (25-50%) pay cut to go part time and even then you'll still be away regardless of SH or LH (Excluding LGW) as that is a part of life at BA and for some they love it.

I've done SH at 2 other airlines prior to joining BA on LH and for me personally and my family being home at night (or in the morning!) just works better compared to the constant coming and going of a long haul schedule and the associated pressure this puts on things at home not to mention the groggy mild permanent flu feeling! Which of course then affects your ability to spend quality time at home.
I've flown with many guys since joining BA who loved the job in their 20's early 30's, but admit now they are married and have young children that its just not the same for them. This is where it gets tricky at BA because being away is part of the lifestyle that some people grow very tired of.
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Old 4th Jan 2017, 17:51   #100 (permalink)
 
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Seeing as it looks like we're all in the mood for willy waving, but also to add another perspective...

I work for a UK 'charter' airline - I have 5 days of rostered flights between now and the end of February, along with a standby block that I almost certainly won't get called for. I have all but one weekend between now and the end of April booked off, and have three weeks of Summer leave confirmed, which were the exact dates I requested and were granted instantly. I'm full time and earn a higher basic salary than somebody in my equivalent position in BA. Every duty is a one or two sector day, and I've only spent two nights away from home since I started (one of which was a last minute change, which I could've refused). I have a plethora of fleet options and detachments available to bid for to keep me interested. Everybody on my OCC course was offered their first preference of base.

It's probably not much use to the OP, but to anybody 10-15 years junior and wanting to avoid the described scenario, charter is certainly the way to go. Summer will be busier, but for now I have, if anything, too much time off.
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