Norwegian B787 - FLL based

[ExDubai]

@4runner Why so greedy?

[NEDude]

This was brought up in another forum -

Norwegian could be looking in to syphoning pilots from the many Miami area secondary cargo airlines such as Centurion, Amerijet, SkyLease, or Florida West. These airlines pay less than Norwegian for wide body cargo flying. The chance to do some "more prestigious" flying on brand new 787s for a bit more pay could be very tempting to those guys, especially if they already live in south Florida.

[Direct Bondi]

Dagens Naeringsliv or DN, Norway’s leading business newspaper, article:

“Kjos aircraft and Spinning Mill Ltd.” – “The boss and spin doctor”

http://www.dn.no/meninger/2016/07/08...g-spinneri-ltd

Those seeking an indirect and precarious, but “more prestigious” position with Norwegian, should accept the OSM invitation to submit questions, as stated in their advertisement:-

http://osmaviation.com/job/contracte...s-b787-us-fll/

“OSM will answer all your queries relating to the contract, employment and training cost bond”

[email protected] - Please provide full details:

• A sample working pattern/roster expected with Norwegian.
• Roster bidding/request options.
• Health Insurance plan for employee and family members.
• Retirement plan.
• Employee and family travel benefits.
• Incremental pay scales.
• Seniority list promotion opportunities with Norwegian.
• The training cost payable before beginning the assignment, specifically;
• (i) Refund should an EASA license not be obtained within the stated period.
• (ii) Refund should Norwegian terminate my Service Provider Agreement with OSM for any reason.
• (iii) The interest earned.
• The affect on my employment with OSM and my options for any alternative OSM airline assignment or notice period payment, should Norwegian terminate my Service Provider Agreement before the 3-year term.
• A sample employment contract for review.

You can also keep shtum, apply and join, hand over the “training cost” pay-to-fly cash, roll over and be unpleasantly surprised by copious smiling rock ape hypocrisy.

[sbg007]

Originally Posted by NEDude

This was brought up in another forum -

Norwegian could be looking in to syphoning pilots from the many Miami area secondary cargo airlines such as Centurion, Amerijet, SkyLease, or Florida West. These airlines pay less than Norwegian for wide body cargo flying. The chance to do some "more prestigious" flying on brand new 787s for a bit more pay could be very tempting to those guys, especially if they already live in south Florida.

Not sure if it is true. These guys can take home up to 10k net per month with 80hrs of block flying.

[dignified]

He who knows, and knows he knows-He is wise, follow him!

Great wisdom for a 'RandomPilot', go for it regardless, and just another piece of advise, this one I quote from a brilliant literary man of France:

"Strike out a few sages, and the crowd of human beings is nothing but a horrible assemblage of unfortunate criminals, and the globe contain nothing but corpses....I wish I had never been born"-Voltaire!

Whether the Emirates scab is right or pretending a clean background from the U.A.E, I do not buy it, I simply do not care, Voltaire's expression above applies very much to the aviators of this world, there is no dignifying respect for morals or principles, is all about vanity.

[iaveight]

Guys like myself

I have been watching Norwegian push through Europe and now into the USA. I doubt there are many in my situation that have just moved to Florida from Europe with an EASA ATP and 121 experience on it. While it is below industry standards for the USA there are some attractive qualities in it for me.

Based in Florida, already have a full EASA and FAA ATP, flights to Europe where I lived for the last twelve years. I too was told by an American FO that if someone takes this job they would never work for an American carrier in the future. This has put a damper on it for me, but in the end its not scab labour as no one is crossing picket lines while others protest better pay at their company.

To each their own but we all have different circumstances and reasons certain contracts look favorable. My choices at the moment are this, take a regional job flying an EMB of some sort for a regional, try for a mainline with my existing time which is over 6000 hours and over 2000 on a 737 or look at NAS .

I won't have to worry about study in two years and can stay in touch with Europe where I have lived and flown for many years.

Unless someone here has some good leads in the USA... Guess it all depends how long it takes for me to find employment here. Yes I came here legally

[bafanguy]

"Unless someone here has some good leads in the USA... Guess it all depends how long it takes for me to find employment here. Yes I came here legally"

iaveight,

Have you applied to all the US legacies or LCCs ? You sound competitive for both those levels of airline. Do you have a 4-year degree ?

[iaveight]

degree

No degree unless you count EASA License and all the exams a degree. I do however have a 2 year college diploma in Aviation Management. In the 90s degrees were not offered and I am from Canada originally ..... Only just started to push forward with resumes and applications. Thanks for the response

[shedsd330]

If you don't have a degree and are not pursuing one, your odds of a US Legacy position are paltry. Spirit or other LCC are viable options. Instead of asking for leads, why not get going on applying? And for the record, with the retention bonuses offered, first year regional pay is almost competive with OSM's 787 FO offer. Repulsive to say the least.

Unfortunately OSM prob thinks you are a perfect candidate for this horrific contract. And yes those taking these positions will be looked down upon as scum may not scab, but scum. Sorry to say but in US we have zero history of contracting out brand new WB seats for paltry pay and training bonds.

[Direct Bondi]

I too was told by an American FO that if someone takes this job they would never work for an American carrier in the future

You are correct that you would not be considered a scab. The perception might be that you support the inequities of Norwegian's novel and complex labor model. My perception is you are putting food on the table.

Pilots in the US are particularly sensitive to any group that threatens their job security and quality of life - The American Dream. This probably has its roots in the United Airlines 1985 strike. During the strike 530 pilots were hired with a directive from the CEO to cross the picket line (scab). The names of the 530 who scabbed were placed in a book and distributed to all UA pilots. The book is updated even today to include the names of relatives who later joined UA.

I am not aware that a book of US based pilots flying for Norwegian will be produced. I am aware that Norwegian's pilots will not be permitted to take advantage of the US airline jump-seat scheme to commute to/from work. The Known Crew Member jump-seat program requires participants to be employed by an airline, not a staffing agency.

I suggest you explore all options to secure direct airline employment, as opposed to “airline unemployment” via employment with a staffing agency precariously renting pilots to airlines. Your aviation career dream may become a service industry nightmare. Good luck.

[iaveight]

Shed what makes you think I am not applying? I have been in the industry long enough not to use others to get myself a job, but networking always helps.

Paltry without a degree? How would flow through work then with companies like Envoy who say flow though when your number is called without interview

[iaveight]

I agree most should be concerned and want contracts and employment to stay lucrative, I guess everyone in here must be a republican than and want the border wall and strong immigration policies....

Bondi - regarding putting food on table, I think we all are hence why we work for a living.

If you are asking whether I need the cash ASAP then NO, I am on full wack till the end of March, my company was understanding of my move. If that were the case I wouldn't have resigned my 737 position in the UK and moved to the States. We are not hurting for money and my wife does very well. I am merely feeling the water out over here trying to get opinions as I have been in the UK for 12 years. Prior to that I am originally from Canada.

[shedsd330]

Using a flow to get to a legacy is a different matter. Yes you could get to American without a degree in that case. Although in the time it will take you to flow up will be WAY longer then the time it takes to get some sort of online degree and hired at US Legacy.

You are very competive for US legacies now, but I'm sorry to say no 4 year is a huge hole. My friend worked in hiring at a US Legacy. He told me that those hired without 4 year were very limited and had extremely important connections. That said applying now does not hurt obviously. Have a look at Allegiant, JetBlue, and Spirit. I bet you get a call from one of them. All far better positions then the rubbish Norweign is throwing out.

[g-code]

I'd like to echo the above. A buddy of mine also had a 2 year diploma and did the coursework for his 4 year degree online through ERAU. He had a call from a major within 45 days.

[Direct Bondi]

iaveight,

My comment regarding “putting food on the table” was empathy directed at someone I thought, wrongly, may have no other choice than to accept the rubbish OSM offer and Norwegian’s pilot rental, job security fear culture. However, given your condescending reply and statement;

Bondi - regarding putting food on table, I think we all are hence why we work for a living.
If you are asking whether I need the cash ASAP then NO, I am on full wack till the end of March, my company was understanding of my move. If that were the case I wouldn't have resigned my 737 position in the UK and moved to the States. We are not hurting for money and my wife does very well

Clearly, you are not deserving of any empathy. You may even be an opportunist looking to enhance your Norwegian 787 chances by relocating to Florida. If so, you are exactly the type Norwegian is looking for. The earlier character assessment by shedsd330 of those applying may also be applicable.

My “good luck” wishes are withdrawn. Furthermore, it is my hope that unionized US pilots do indeed produce a Norwegian booklet of names for future reference, should you or any others apply to a US airline in the future. Hopefully, your name will be at the top.

[iaveight]

touchy for no reason

I am merely stating fact nothing more or less, if it was empathy it didn't sound like it. Obviously I would query NAS as I have an EASA ATPL and again wanted peoples input. Not looking for empathy or sympathy just fact and what is going on in the USA.

Not quite sure why a degree is so important though. Go to Uni online take a bird course and that prepares me for life in a legacy carrier. If its to show commitment then I have completed EASA ATPL which is near enough a degree course and on top of that two years college in Canada for aviation management.

Wont argue with the system here just don't understand the degree part.

Thanks for the input Bondi g code and shed sd.

I have a couple of interviews coming up one with a flow through that allows me to commute from my home. Money isn't what I was making in the UK but then again I am not taxed 43 percent on any of my wage and I moved here for a personal reason. Its nice to see many jobs floating around as it was slim pickings years ago. Europe is very busy still with many jobs there but tough to get work permit like it is in the States.

[g-code]

The degree is just "one of those things." It's possible to get to a major through a flow program without one, but when 99% of your competition has one...well you get the point.

Some carriers will hire without one, but American, United, Delta, and Southwest generally won't. With FAA certs and a 2 year degree, it probably wouldn't take more than 12 months to complete as you will receive quite a few transfer credits.

There are other carriers like Atlas and Spirit who pay pretty well who don't require one. Not sure about JetBlue.

I'm not as militant with Bondi, because guys who go work at Norwegian aren't scabs, but I don't look at Norwegian favorably at all either.

Welcome to the States and good luck!

[Direct Bondi]

I would query NAS as I have an EASA ATPL and again wanted peoples input.

Presently, you are unprepared to attend an interview. NAS has no association whatsoever with pilot employment contracts with staffing agency OSM for onward, service provider, pilot rental to a Norwegian airline – “airline unemployment”.

I suggest you practice your response to the inevitable question from any US airline interview board, probably including a line captain, as to why, with an EASA license and living in Florida, you have not applied to OSM for Norwegian. Your response may determine your aviation career future.

[iaveight]

If I had that question in an interview, to be honest no preparation required, tell the truth. I have 3 ATPL which affords me a few companies to look at. Regarding OSM , in Europe and the Far East many use these companies for work, PARC is a huge one and a friend of mine is employed with a Japanese carrier through Parc . Difference is , awesome contract and completion bonuses. Unfortunately the commuting contract I wanted wasn't interested , they like young young guys with type ratings . Commuting would have been my first pick.

Its like you Bondi moving to Europe, many carriers , many options, many opinions. At the end of the day each of us has to do what is best for ourselves

[iaveight]

Thanks G Code, feel much more at home back in North America than in Europe. All the best !!!!