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Old 21st Jul 2016, 18:32   #101 (permalink)
WMB
 
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Flybe DEC.

Contract on offer from Flybe for DEC, requires an 18000 bond over three years, even if you have a valid Q400 rating, and are currently operating on type.
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Old 22nd Jul 2016, 00:39   #102 (permalink)
 
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That can't be right.
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Old 22nd Jul 2016, 09:25   #103 (permalink)
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Most of facts are all here.

Careers < Corporate | Flybe UK

The bond used to be 13.5k over three years (that changed on 1st April 2016), reducing from the date of your type rating. It's now 18k over five years, reducing after the first 12 months. And remember it is a bond, so only pay it if you leave the company. I think with Jet2, Thomson, Ryanair, Thomas Cook, Easyjet they all charge for the training whether you stay long term or not.

I don't know if the bond is still enforced if you are already rated, could negotiate that I think.

First proper pay deal in a few years will make it more attractive now. Selection, training and operations staff all very friendly and transparent.

Good company to work for from what I hear, they work hard but your home a lot more than most other operators. Very highly regarded training, safety and SOP standards.

If you want a regional base away from London and to be with your family more then this could be a good option.
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Old 22nd Jul 2016, 10:18   #104 (permalink)
 
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Jet2 don't charge for training and give you twice as much time at home than you would get at Flybe, on vastly better pay in a non London base.

Increasing the cost and duration of the bond is an attempt by Flyby management to stop the exodus. Just to clarify.
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Old 22nd Jul 2016, 11:38   #105 (permalink)
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JilderPilot.

You are correct in what you say regarding the bond, and the company has its merits. It was as the interview was coming to a close and we were talking about possible sim dates that I first learned about the bond. The guy was not flexible on this, regardless of rating or currency, and it was because of this I decided not to take it any further. Was I stupid, only time will tell, but these days a year is a long time in aviation never mind three.
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Old 22nd Jul 2016, 12:59   #106 (permalink)
 
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Under four years ago Flybe were less than 24 hours away from the shutters coming down and the locks put on the doors. Historically they've been loss making and relied on subsidies from the late Jack Walker. The operation is, in my opinion, still too big to consistently profitably meet the niche that they undoubtedly have. Consider these risks before signing up. In no way do I want to see Flybe fail, quite the opposite, but you have to go into it with your eyes open.
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Old 22nd Jul 2016, 13:11   #107 (permalink)
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The airline is a going concern continuing its operations back into profitability. It is in a far better position than it had ever been and stronger to manage challenges.

It requires a bond / sign up for people to remain with them.

It is exactly the same position as many other airlines - with Brexit and other forces changing - it is inevitable there will be significant risks.

They are not asking for money upfront - this is a paper bond which is payable if you choose to leave.

If you want a job then that's the deal - although I can see it not going down too well with skippers and current Q400 people going for this deal.

Which leaves flybe in a position where they still remain short on people -> leading to cancelling flights = challenging times!
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Old 22nd Jul 2016, 13:15   #108 (permalink)
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And don't forget the command bond when you finally get promoted.
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Old 22nd Jul 2016, 20:22   #109 (permalink)
 
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I still don't believe that a Q400 rated and current pilot would be bonded.
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Old 24th Jul 2016, 11:02   #110 (permalink)
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RAFAT, I have made nothing up, and was in fact looking forward to working from home. My interview was conducted by a guy, not the usual lady, (This is not the place to mention names) but I don't believe that would have made any difference. It was only afterwards when I spoke to a few people, that I knew in the company, they confirmed the bond was correct. The figures, and time line quoted by Jilder Pilot are spot on, as well as his assessment of the company. I was prepared to have some form of bond to cover the ground course, but 18000 is excessive.
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Old 24th Jul 2016, 17:59   #111 (permalink)
 
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I assume you're joining because you want to work for flybe? If that's the case then the bond should be largely irrelevant. If you're not planning on leaving then it won't cost you a penny.
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Old 25th Jul 2016, 00:15   #112 (permalink)
 
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WMB - Well if you're correct, then to charge you, a Q400 rated pilot, with a bond of 18,000 is unreasonable. It's a training bond and if you don't need all of the training then you shouldn't be charged all of the bond.
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Old 25th Jul 2016, 06:39   #113 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reversethrustset View Post
I assume you're joining because you want to work for flybe? If that's the case then the bond should be largely irrelevant. If you're not planning on leaving then it won't cost you a penny.
Because plans change. Could be your personal circumstances, could be your working conditions within Flybe, could just be that the company isn't all it was cracked up to be so you want out. You never really know these things until you're there. If you're already type rated and haven't cost the company the amount of the 'bond' in training you then it's handcuffs and nothing more.

Why not sign over your house and first born whilst you're at it using that logic? It's largely irrelevant as after all, you're 100% not going to leave......
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Old 25th Jul 2016, 07:42   #114 (permalink)
 
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Why not sign over your house and first born
Don't give them ideas
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Old 25th Jul 2016, 08:02   #115 (permalink)
 
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Being bonded for 18000 while you are typerated: a pure disgrace i call this.

And there is no legal argument for doing this.
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Old 25th Jul 2016, 10:30   #116 (permalink)
 
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AFA, I think you're mis-interpreting the logic. You're not signing over anything even if the bond is 100k so why would you sign over your first born and house? Yes plans change etc, but you can say that about anything, like why pay Ryanair 30k for a type rating to then realise it's not what you thought it was, or why pay 120k for flight training to only realise the job isn't what it cracked up to be. Yes I agree it's pretty disgraceful making a type rated bod sign an 18k bond but there are choices in life, and those choices are either don't join, call them up and ask exactly why the bond needs signing and what is it for exactly or just get on with it.
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Old 25th Jul 2016, 11:40   #117 (permalink)
 
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Hi everyone...
so the website says starting salary of 64000pounds...is that a good salary if you choose to base yourself in Southampton?
I am asking as i dont live in EU or UK...
and coming off a B737 with no job now would it be a consideration, i know it is going from jet to turbo prop but work is work at the end of the day...your opinions please...
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Old 25th Jul 2016, 12:02   #118 (permalink)
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The reason I posted here is to provide some information for others, as I was unaware of the bond prior to interview. A certain amount of bond to cover the ground course and such like is entirely reasonable, but it was the amount and duration that I had the problem with. Many of you have stated why worry if your not going to leave? That is entirely true, but when you find out that the company requires 18000 over three years, you get a bit suspicious. Given the fact that the company is recruiting DEC in the first place is unusual, as there always used to be enough talent in the right seat, ready to make the move. If the guys & girls are leaving, rather than upgrade, then the company has serious problems. From my suspicions point of view it seems that HR is well aware of this, and the large size of the bond is a way to ensure that new joiners have no choice but to stay, once the shine wares of the new job. This is entirely my point of view as an outsider, looking in, and I am sure many reading this will be better placed to pass judgement than me.

Last edited by WMB; 26th Jul 2016 at 10:50. Reason: Error
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Old 25th Jul 2016, 18:03   #119 (permalink)
 
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Hi WMB
I think the reason for this is that Flybe have had a problem with new pilots arriving, and Flybe having spent money on their type rating, then moving on within a couple of years, months, or even before they’ve finished the type rating course. You cant blame people for doing that after all Flybe is a regional airline paying regional airline salaries, it’s a mainly turboprop operator when most pilots would prefer to fly jets, and has had in the non too distant past (although I don’t think this is a immediate problem now) a question mark over its financial viability.
And that is probably the point of the large bond – it doesn’t hurt those for whom Flybe is the right choice and who want to stay, but it does discourage those who just want to use Flybe as a stepping stone, and in that light is possibly quite a smart move on the part of the company.
As far as your suspicions are concerned, well Flybe has good bits and bad bits: Great people, great training, and a very professional safety and operational culture. Also, once the effects of the recent pay deal are realized in a couple of years, it will have some of the best-paid turboprop pilots anywhere, along with relatively high percentage pension contributions. On the other hand even high turboprop pay doesn’t compare favorably to global average pilot salaries, and Flybe is mainly a turboprop operation with a small jet fleet (the ongoing existence of a jet fleet within the company is in any case probably not a dead certainty), and rostering, partly due to the pilot shortage, is pretty ‘bloody’ at the moment, with full timers averaging close to a 5 on 2 off pattern, which combined with increasingly long days is probably unsustainable in the long run.
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Old 25th Jul 2016, 18:39   #120 (permalink)
 
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Anodyne. I think all understand and accept the bond where type rating is involved, but the issue raised here is why it is applied to those already type rated and current.
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