Easyjet brexit
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kungFu panda said
"It'll be great for European Pilots as the British Pilots are no longer able to apply. Rising wages in Europe, collapsing wages in the UK."
and
"A lot of British Pilot jobs could be on the line and British Pilots could be seriously devalued"
Presumably all of the many non-British EU pilots currently employed by British operators and based in the UK will be required to return home and could potentially replace all those British pilots that you say will no longer have the right to work there? That's a good thing if you feel there are really that many British pilots flying for non-British EU employers, because there are a lot of non-British EU pilots employed by UK operators. Job protectionism across most of the EU is absolutely rife - in my view the UK is the only state that has adequately embraced the principal of free movement of workers within the EU with respect to aircrew employment. On the contrary, this could be a very good thing for British pilots.
"It'll be great for European Pilots as the British Pilots are no longer able to apply. Rising wages in Europe, collapsing wages in the UK."
and
"A lot of British Pilot jobs could be on the line and British Pilots could be seriously devalued"
Presumably all of the many non-British EU pilots currently employed by British operators and based in the UK will be required to return home and could potentially replace all those British pilots that you say will no longer have the right to work there? That's a good thing if you feel there are really that many British pilots flying for non-British EU employers, because there are a lot of non-British EU pilots employed by UK operators. Job protectionism across most of the EU is absolutely rife - in my view the UK is the only state that has adequately embraced the principal of free movement of workers within the EU with respect to aircrew employment. On the contrary, this could be a very good thing for British pilots.
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Reverserbucket_ Read post 45 to start.
Britain will be obligated to grandfather the rights of Foreign EU employees currently working in the UK. It'll be the opposite with other EU nations who will not have and will not choose to have a work permit infrastructure set up to grandfather the rights of British employees and particularly British Pilots (remember after a Brexit there will be a punitive response to Britain). British Pilots working throughout Europe at bases such as Leipzig, Bergamo, Hahn etc etc etc would\could be sent home on a nation by nation basis to swamp the UK with Pilots. Don't forget the UK is a significant net exporter of Pilots. At Leipzig there must be 200-300 British Pilots.
The only sensible conclusion is that a leave vote would be suicidal for British Pilots.
Britain will be obligated to grandfather the rights of Foreign EU employees currently working in the UK. It'll be the opposite with other EU nations who will not have and will not choose to have a work permit infrastructure set up to grandfather the rights of British employees and particularly British Pilots (remember after a Brexit there will be a punitive response to Britain). British Pilots working throughout Europe at bases such as Leipzig, Bergamo, Hahn etc etc etc would\could be sent home on a nation by nation basis to swamp the UK with Pilots. Don't forget the UK is a significant net exporter of Pilots. At Leipzig there must be 200-300 British Pilots.
The only sensible conclusion is that a leave vote would be suicidal for British Pilots.
KP, you and a few others have made some valid points that I hadn't previously considered, but like most of the "in" campaigners, you dress your argument in horror stories that discredit your position.
Last edited by Aluminium shuffler; 25th Feb 2016 at 12:50.
KP - I think AS just beat me to the post.
Excuse my ignorance but why will, 'Britain will be obligated to grandfather the rights of Foreign EU employees currently working in the UK.' when it wouldn't work the other way round. Surely if that were to happen Britain would immediately kick out all EU nationals of their choice as retribution.
Excuse my ignorance but why will, 'Britain will be obligated to grandfather the rights of Foreign EU employees currently working in the UK.' when it wouldn't work the other way round. Surely if that were to happen Britain would immediately kick out all EU nationals of their choice as retribution.
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After an out vote of our choosing we could clearly not terminate the employment of bread winners currently working in the UK(not humanitarian). We therefore would need to put in place a system of work permits for those EU nationals currently employed in the UK. Other nations who are not having any referendum and who don't have this kind of work permit system already in place would not be obliged to do so. To me that's obvious.
I am sorry but I don't really understand your points (AS + Stig). We can not force further bureaucracy on other nations because we have forced it upon ourselves. Other nations will not have to allow employment of non-EU citizens. It's clear (to me).
I am sorry but I don't really understand your points (AS + Stig). We can not force further bureaucracy on other nations because we have forced it upon ourselves. Other nations will not have to allow employment of non-EU citizens. It's clear (to me).
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Yes Shuffler, always struck me as a curiosity that BA will take (and has taken) EU citizens into it's fold; Whereas how many Brits has Air France,Alitalia,Lufthansa et al welcomed (assuming native language speakers)?
EU urgently needs reform to cope with differing speeds of the respective economies.
Vote may be driven by emotional sentiment....could be a close call....
easy will already have a contingency and will use the uncertainty to talk down wage/lifestyle initiatives....
EU urgently needs reform to cope with differing speeds of the respective economies.
Vote may be driven by emotional sentiment....could be a close call....
easy will already have a contingency and will use the uncertainty to talk down wage/lifestyle initiatives....
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"After an out vote of our choosing we could clearly not terminate the employment of bread winners currently working in the UK"
Why not? If there is no entitlement then they must go. If they wish to remain, a path to British citizenship must be sought. There is no reliance on foreign aircrew - a professional pilot is not a specialised occupation in the sense that there is a need to recruit from outside of the UK to meet demand.
Why not? If there is no entitlement then they must go. If they wish to remain, a path to British citizenship must be sought. There is no reliance on foreign aircrew - a professional pilot is not a specialised occupation in the sense that there is a need to recruit from outside of the UK to meet demand.
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Reverser- now you're just pursuing an unrealistic argument, maybe what you view as ideal. Unfortunately we need to make a vote pragmatically on what would be best for us professionally.
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Calm down lads. Citizens from Switzerland and Norway have the unrestricted right to work in UK and by extension the EEA. Therefore if Brexit were to happen, UK pilots would still be able to work freely for other European airlines and Vice versa European pilots could still work for UK airlines.
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KP, what are you smoking? If exit results in UK citizens no longer having the right to live and work in the EU, then why on Earth would we have them have the right to live and work in the UK? What makes you think that the rules would have to be inequal, just because the present equal rules are applied one sidedly? This is one of the principal issues of the exit debate - the fact that the UK and its citizens have for decades been disadvantaged by the EU's deliberate failure to enforce equal rites of the Brits in the EU in the way it enforces the rights of others (including non-EU) in the UK. It is this entrenched unfairness that fuels the desire of many for exit. There is no way that it would continue in the way you claim.
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Wow....If you're right AS then they'll kick out the EU citizens from BA,RYR,Easy then I can come back from China to a DEC with one of the above. If I believed that then I would have to be smoking something.
What you're arguing is probably my ideal as well but it is entirely unrealistic.
Work permits would be issued to EU Pilots flying within the UK after Brexit.
Individual EU countries will not issue work permits to foreign Pilots.
What you're arguing is probably my ideal as well but it is entirely unrealistic.
Work permits would be issued to EU Pilots flying within the UK after Brexit.
Individual EU countries will not issue work permits to foreign Pilots.
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KP, regardless of how unrealistic or ideal my suggestion, at the expense of highlighting the underlying political nature of this discussion, I would suggest that this is precisely the simplistic view shared by a large number of the British electorate. AS's reflection that it is this "entrenched unfairness that fuels the desire of many for exit" is precisely the point - it is this perceived imbalance and erosion of our rights as British Citizens (few speak of being European or holding an EU passport - I hold a British Passport incidentally, at the top of which is stated, in a smaller font - European Union), that would make any grandfathering of rights for non-British EU workers all the more inflammatory, and not least as following Brexit, you say that "there will be a punitive response to Britain". So yes, all non-British employees to leave UK employment and no work permits - we are not Norway or Switzerland. The British electorate was mislead by the European Communities Act in 1972 as to the degree of compromise that would be demanded, irrespective of any perceived gain through the prospect of freedom of movement of workers, the benefits of a Common Market and the prospect of a long retirement in Italy or the South of France, enjoying a similar standard of benefits with affordable living costs. This referendum is an opportunity to redress the imbalance of the past 43 years, unless of course you feel the prospect of Turkey, Armenia and the myriad other 'continental' nations that the EC considers perfectly eligible for membership and further dilution of our basic human rights sounds like an acceptable proposition?
Last edited by Reverserbucket; 25th Feb 2016 at 15:33.
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[QUOTE=Syntax Error;9279132]I am amazed by the amount of Stupidity on these forums sometimes, but I have to admit this thread both shows and proves the lack of understanding for EU In / Out../QUOTE]
I think that you started this with your view that anybody who had different opinions from you was stupid and had no understanding.
I think that you started this with your view that anybody who had different opinions from you was stupid and had no understanding.
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I see mol is in the press calling for a big yes vote. No surprise as most of his uk cc are eastern bloc...
Personally I think it's a bad show a boss of a foreign company sticking his nose into uk politics to line his pockets. And whenever I see businesses campaigning to stay in, it makes me want to leave even more. Businesses are only interested in driving up their profits, partly done by being able to hire cheaper unit cost overseas labour.
With 323,000 people coming here looking for work each year (roughly we need a new city the size of Nottingham each year! No wonder house prices are mental) that is only driving down labour cost further pleasing these sociopath ceo's of large businesses.
Personally I think it's a bad show a boss of a foreign company sticking his nose into uk politics to line his pockets. And whenever I see businesses campaigning to stay in, it makes me want to leave even more. Businesses are only interested in driving up their profits, partly done by being able to hire cheaper unit cost overseas labour.
With 323,000 people coming here looking for work each year (roughly we need a new city the size of Nottingham each year! No wonder house prices are mental) that is only driving down labour cost further pleasing these sociopath ceo's of large businesses.
The chief executive of British Airways parent company IAG has said a ‘Brexit’ from the European Union would not have an impact on its business.
The head of the company which also owns Aer Lingus, Iberia and Vueling did admit the impending referendum was causing “uncertainty” in the market.
Speaking to BBC’s Radio 4 Today programme about what impact a vote to leave the EU would have, Walsh said: “We have taken advice from a number of sources, we have looked at this internally, we have undertaken a risk analysis.
"Obviously there is uncertainty in the market which is weighing on people's minds. But our view is should there be a vote we don't believe it will have a material impact on our business,” Walsh added.
The head of the company which also owns Aer Lingus, Iberia and Vueling did admit the impending referendum was causing “uncertainty” in the market.
Speaking to BBC’s Radio 4 Today programme about what impact a vote to leave the EU would have, Walsh said: “We have taken advice from a number of sources, we have looked at this internally, we have undertaken a risk analysis.
"Obviously there is uncertainty in the market which is weighing on people's minds. But our view is should there be a vote we don't believe it will have a material impact on our business,” Walsh added.
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Of course Walsh says this. I would bet 95% of staff at his various airlines are local staff. Unlike mol, who sends his guys and gals out whereever he needs, and most of the cc in uk are from Europe mainland and earn very little money. Also the bigger portion of their incomes are long haul.
Businesses are only interested in themselves and their shareholders (most of which are now large overseas hedge and trust funds). Why anyone would listen to a business saying to stay in is beyond me. Bunch of tax avoiding sociopathic nut jobs in the main these ceo's.
Businesses are only interested in themselves and their shareholders (most of which are now large overseas hedge and trust funds). Why anyone would listen to a business saying to stay in is beyond me. Bunch of tax avoiding sociopathic nut jobs in the main these ceo's.
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I see mol is in the press calling for a big yes vote. No surprise as most of his uk cc are eastern bloc...
Personally I think it's a bad show a boss of a foreign company sticking his nose into uk politics to line his pockets. And whenever I see businesses campaigning to stay in, it makes me want to leave even more. Businesses are only interested in driving up their profits, partly done by being able to hire cheaper unit cost overseas labour.
Personally I think it's a bad show a boss of a foreign company sticking his nose into uk politics to line his pockets. And whenever I see businesses campaigning to stay in, it makes me want to leave even more. Businesses are only interested in driving up their profits, partly done by being able to hire cheaper unit cost overseas labour.
As for the concerns of the IN lobby that the UK would be excluded from so many deals and opportunities, consider this: if the UK leaves, it will probably trigger the departure of numerous other member states, principally the prosperous ones with a work ethic. I dare say such a group would include the Netherlands, Scandinavia and ultimately Germany, once Merkel gets the boot from disgruntles German voters. That group is almost certain to form a new collaboration with lessons learnt from the mess that is the EU. It'd be a group far more beneficial and effective than the current mire.
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Nothing radical/surprising here, a European mainland AOC will take care of everything. . . . . .
Easyjet to set up continental based airline - BBC News
Easyjet to set up continental based airline - BBC News
