Self Sponsored Training
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Self Sponsored Training
I see many pop-ups on Prune for 'self sponsored training'. This is very expensive. I searched on other sites for doctors, nurses, train drivers, cargo/ferry shipping officers, army tank drivers, RAF pilots, Navy pilots and ship officers, submarine crew, commodity traders, investment bankers, accountants, etc. etc. I could not find any profession that asks a young apprentice to stump up €120,000 to gain a basic licence with no guarantee and then try and find a job. Am I missing something? Are there similar industries out there? Please let us know.
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The median four-year cost of medical school (including expenses and books) was $278,455 for private schools, and $207,866 for public schools in 2013 according to the Association of American Medical Colleges. While grants and scholarships account for some of this total, lowering eventual debt to an average of $170,000–interest accrues while doctors are still completing their residencies, sometimes adding as much as 25% to the total debt load.
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Deptrai, you need a day off. Thrashing about from forum to forum, thread to thread, expressing opinion on every conceivable subject and often, I concede, quite entertaining and articulate . Look, here's the thing ; Thread opener was asking about sponsored pilot training and.............here's the clue............... ; talked about Uk pounds. Your reply was in US Dollars (I think). US NEVER had sponsored pilot training. UK did in the glorious 60's - 80's but long since scrapped all deals because dumbed down rich kids in the Uk asked Mum & Dad to pay for training & the UK schools fooled these twots into thinking that they were highly selected cadets. Indeed, a recent TV programme followed the progress of the latest, "renewed" Cadet scheme that showed rich kids who were now, deeply indebted to banks, checking out as Airbus drivers being grateful to BA for their "Cadet Training". Oh dear.
Thanks to clarification, in response to a question I asked about Lufthansa's Cadet scheme, seems the psychotic Killer of recent fame, was, indeed, a fully sponsored Cadet. In other words, very highly selected(sic) and all fees paid by Lufthansa.
Yeah, in the Uk, we have moved towards fees, student loans etc. I guess a UK Trainee Doctor is going to have to self fund some money. Lawyers too. Indeed, anyone going the Trainee Professional path.
To answer the Opener's question. NO ! There is no sponsored training. Ask Mum & Dad and be careful. Cobbled together schemes like the BA Cadet Scheme, worse, the former Britannia Airways Cadet scheme, all in cahoots with money-hungry schools will leave you in severe debt. But as you hold up the School's "Cadet Of The Year" Trophy", focus on the years of P2 fly that await you.
A solution, in the UK, is what I offered to Flight International Magazine in 1964. I envisaged a European funded Cadet College. Cadet Training would be free. Sponsoring airlines would fund and have direct access to graduates in relation to the former's level of funding. I would, of course be Principal & live in detatched, Principal's housing (at least six bedrooms), on campus. I was 18 years old. 40 years later..............oh dear..........Where are they now .........!
Thanks to clarification, in response to a question I asked about Lufthansa's Cadet scheme, seems the psychotic Killer of recent fame, was, indeed, a fully sponsored Cadet. In other words, very highly selected(sic) and all fees paid by Lufthansa.
Yeah, in the Uk, we have moved towards fees, student loans etc. I guess a UK Trainee Doctor is going to have to self fund some money. Lawyers too. Indeed, anyone going the Trainee Professional path.
To answer the Opener's question. NO ! There is no sponsored training. Ask Mum & Dad and be careful. Cobbled together schemes like the BA Cadet Scheme, worse, the former Britannia Airways Cadet scheme, all in cahoots with money-hungry schools will leave you in severe debt. But as you hold up the School's "Cadet Of The Year" Trophy", focus on the years of P2 fly that await you.
A solution, in the UK, is what I offered to Flight International Magazine in 1964. I envisaged a European funded Cadet College. Cadet Training would be free. Sponsoring airlines would fund and have direct access to graduates in relation to the former's level of funding. I would, of course be Principal & live in detatched, Principal's housing (at least six bedrooms), on campus. I was 18 years old. 40 years later..............oh dear..........Where are they now .........!
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Ryanair are planning a cadet scheme, won't be free though, however there would be a job at the end of it ( subject to performance) no point in employing someone with more money that aptitude, training risk etc etc. The OP asks if other employment training is as costly with no job.. of course.. Dentists, Doctors, Psychologists, the list is endless.. somehow pilots trainees feel they have the " right to a job" no so, pays your money and takes your chance.. Forget the exhaustive SSTR and PAY to Fly nonsense that crops up every month!
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@Kirks gusset: When are FR starting their cadet scheme , seems a little bit strange for them as they get inundated with CVs from fresh self funded cadets each day and are able to just pick from the long list which candidates they prefer. Or is this the partnership with CTC you are referring to? Just seems odd to me, great to hear your thoughts.
Regards and safe flying, SAR
Regards and safe flying, SAR
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A solution, in the UK, is what I offered to Flight International Magazine in 1964. I envisaged a European funded Cadet College. Cadet Training would be free. Sponsoring airlines would fund and have direct access to graduates
Some years later than yours, after I rejected an offer to join Her Majesty's Air Brigade, I asked why there is no career path from military to civil? After all, Imperial Airways and all the other civil carriers obtained their pilots from the military after the wars. Experience was required, ability and character too. In past years the military have been troubled with finding enough quality pilots. I rejected her offer because I did not want to become redundant at 38 years old: it would have been fun but daft. If there was a career path both the military & civil operators would have enough. There are those who quote "the right stuff is the wrong stuff". Well IMHO that's bollox. There are as many 'unsuitable' bums on cockpit seats now as there might be from that argument. Britannia & Air 2000 were 2 very successful, safe, career minded airlines that, in their early days, recruited from the military. I wonder; if todays trained monkey cadet can hack it, sometimes, why not giving the ex-military guy a chance to change their spots and learn a different manner of doing it?
My suggestion was poo poo'd by the new cuddly HR & CRM physco babble brigade. "totally unsuitable and untrainable." What a load of BS. It is very sad to see so many airlines reject experienced applicants purely because they are experienced. Even a leading LoCo refused type rated F/O's saying they were too difficult to retrain. Now, in the shortage, they are relaxing that attitude. What a crazy daft world we live in!!.
Some years later than yours, after I rejected an offer to join Her Majesty's Air Brigade, I asked why there is no career path from military to civil? After all, Imperial Airways and all the other civil carriers obtained their pilots from the military after the wars. Experience was required, ability and character too. In past years the military have been troubled with finding enough quality pilots. I rejected her offer because I did not want to become redundant at 38 years old: it would have been fun but daft. If there was a career path both the military & civil operators would have enough. There are those who quote "the right stuff is the wrong stuff". Well IMHO that's bollox. There are as many 'unsuitable' bums on cockpit seats now as there might be from that argument. Britannia & Air 2000 were 2 very successful, safe, career minded airlines that, in their early days, recruited from the military. I wonder; if todays trained monkey cadet can hack it, sometimes, why not giving the ex-military guy a chance to change their spots and learn a different manner of doing it?
My suggestion was poo poo'd by the new cuddly HR & CRM physco babble brigade. "totally unsuitable and untrainable." What a load of BS. It is very sad to see so many airlines reject experienced applicants purely because they are experienced. Even a leading LoCo refused type rated F/O's saying they were too difficult to retrain. Now, in the shortage, they are relaxing that attitude. What a crazy daft world we live in!!.
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Deptrai, you need a day off.
I have too many days off
Thrashing about from forum to forum, thread to thread, expressing opinion on every conceivable subject and often, I concede, quite entertaining and articulate .
thank you.
Look, here's the thing ; Thread opener was asking about sponsored pilot training and.............here's the clue............... ; talked about Uk pounds.
No, Euro
as for the self-sponsored training etc...Norway started publicly funded ATPL training a few years ago, at the University of Tromso. Winter ops included. Lots of applicants, very selective. Good idea if you ask me.
I have too many days off
Thrashing about from forum to forum, thread to thread, expressing opinion on every conceivable subject and often, I concede, quite entertaining and articulate .
thank you.
Look, here's the thing ; Thread opener was asking about sponsored pilot training and.............here's the clue............... ; talked about Uk pounds.
No, Euro
as for the self-sponsored training etc...Norway started publicly funded ATPL training a few years ago, at the University of Tromso. Winter ops included. Lots of applicants, very selective. Good idea if you ask me.
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RAT 5
The training for a Tank Commander required him to have skills as a Driver, Mechanic, Gunner and Wireless Operator and took us, then, 3 months.
I was paid £1 per week by His Majesty, with ALL FOUND.
The training for my Commercial Pilots Licence at A.S.T..Hamble ( the only Approved School in 1949 or '50) took 6 months and 150 hours ( and 20 minutes ) flying. plus 10 hours Link.
Auster or Tiger cost £5/ hour
Proctor cost £6/ hour
Oxford or Anson 1 cost £10/ hour
Extra for night flying.
Link and Ground School were included.
Accommodation was £5 or £10 per week, ( I think.)
I was employed the following day, Joy riding and light charter in an Auster. Flights cost 7/8d each. BUT I WAS PAID ! ( On Fridays )
It goes to show that being born at the right time makes a difference !
Elswhere an Auster hire rate was £3/ hour at Rearsby, Rochester, Croydon or Southend. ( Southend had a Slingsby Motor Tutor and the "ONLY" remaining Dart Kitten for £1/10s per hour.)
Some years later as a Britannia Captain I found that my F/O was a former Tank man... We debated whether to do our remembered Tank Drills before flight... The F/E was ex -Infantry... and so would NOT be able to play his part, properly.
LT
The training for a Tank Commander required him to have skills as a Driver, Mechanic, Gunner and Wireless Operator and took us, then, 3 months.
I was paid £1 per week by His Majesty, with ALL FOUND.
The training for my Commercial Pilots Licence at A.S.T..Hamble ( the only Approved School in 1949 or '50) took 6 months and 150 hours ( and 20 minutes ) flying. plus 10 hours Link.
Auster or Tiger cost £5/ hour
Proctor cost £6/ hour
Oxford or Anson 1 cost £10/ hour
Extra for night flying.
Link and Ground School were included.
Accommodation was £5 or £10 per week, ( I think.)
I was employed the following day, Joy riding and light charter in an Auster. Flights cost 7/8d each. BUT I WAS PAID ! ( On Fridays )
It goes to show that being born at the right time makes a difference !
Elswhere an Auster hire rate was £3/ hour at Rearsby, Rochester, Croydon or Southend. ( Southend had a Slingsby Motor Tutor and the "ONLY" remaining Dart Kitten for £1/10s per hour.)
Some years later as a Britannia Captain I found that my F/O was a former Tank man... We debated whether to do our remembered Tank Drills before flight... The F/E was ex -Infantry... and so would NOT be able to play his part, properly.
LT
Last edited by Linktrained; 17th Jul 2015 at 16:05. Reason: Rearsby etc.
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REARSBY ...? That's where Austers were built.
1948 was a year of Post -War Austerity, the Country, the U.K., was bankrupt when , now, bread (National Loaf) was rationed. and little to buy in the shops. Meals out were not allowed to cost more than 5 shillings for a maximum of two courses.
I had been promoted, wih 4 Comets in my care each with two tracks and a Rolls Royce engine .And now I was paid £1/ day, still with all found.
Flying lessons with Auster's Chief Test pilot worked out at 3 days pay = i hour's flying. He would not allow me to go solo unless I could both STALL and SPIN... And then RECOVER, from both. ( I did )
He warned me not to fly in cloud... YET....
I was to stay within 3 miles of Rearsby. ( The A.S.I. was in M.P.H. so Statute miles)
Self Funded Training ? Yes, for my first 50 plus hours or more
LT
1948 was a year of Post -War Austerity, the Country, the U.K., was bankrupt when , now, bread (National Loaf) was rationed. and little to buy in the shops. Meals out were not allowed to cost more than 5 shillings for a maximum of two courses.
I had been promoted, wih 4 Comets in my care each with two tracks and a Rolls Royce engine .And now I was paid £1/ day, still with all found.
Flying lessons with Auster's Chief Test pilot worked out at 3 days pay = i hour's flying. He would not allow me to go solo unless I could both STALL and SPIN... And then RECOVER, from both. ( I did )
He warned me not to fly in cloud... YET....
I was to stay within 3 miles of Rearsby. ( The A.S.I. was in M.P.H. so Statute miles)
Self Funded Training ? Yes, for my first 50 plus hours or more
LT
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My"A" Licence issued after 12 Hours. ( a "B" was the professional licence , until 1st April 1949.)
After 20+ hours I was allowed to keep one of Auster's Austers at " my" airfield, Leicester East, and park it in "my Hangar", with "my tanks" ( Provided they did not harm one another !)
The tanks were not allowed to use the three runways for driving practice, , just drive around the peri track. ( Rearsby was all grass.)
On an early cross-country flight... I got lost and had to land ask where I was.
( In retrospect, perhaps it WAS the right time to do so. Much less embarassing than to do so much later on, when radio might have helped.)
After a long cross country to Edinburgh's McMerry flying club I had heavy cloud across the Borders for my return. I turned back, for my first ever diversion, as had been ordered by the Chief Test Pilot.
24 hours late, and " Absent without Leave"... NOT yet a Deserter.
I had to explain to my Commanding Officer that a Fly Past by the USAF had been cancelled for the same weather on that day. ( My excuse was accepted.)
( Nobody wanted my skills as a Civilian Tank Driver. Someone thought that the Army had not been mechanised, so I must know about HORSES !)
LT
After 20+ hours I was allowed to keep one of Auster's Austers at " my" airfield, Leicester East, and park it in "my Hangar", with "my tanks" ( Provided they did not harm one another !)
The tanks were not allowed to use the three runways for driving practice, , just drive around the peri track. ( Rearsby was all grass.)
On an early cross-country flight... I got lost and had to land ask where I was.
( In retrospect, perhaps it WAS the right time to do so. Much less embarassing than to do so much later on, when radio might have helped.)
After a long cross country to Edinburgh's McMerry flying club I had heavy cloud across the Borders for my return. I turned back, for my first ever diversion, as had been ordered by the Chief Test Pilot.
24 hours late, and " Absent without Leave"... NOT yet a Deserter.
I had to explain to my Commanding Officer that a Fly Past by the USAF had been cancelled for the same weather on that day. ( My excuse was accepted.)
( Nobody wanted my skills as a Civilian Tank Driver. Someone thought that the Army had not been mechanised, so I must know about HORSES !)
LT
Last edited by Linktrained; 31st Jul 2015 at 16:26.
SIA is still sponsoring cadets subject to a seven year bond.
https://sia.silkroad.com/epostings/i...40&startflag=2
https://sia.silkroad.com/epostings/i...40&startflag=2
