Norwegian B787 - LGW based
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: gate 67 JFK
Posts: 690
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So is this guy on anti Kojs cool-aid ? this from the CAPA site.
Some opponents claim safety concerns arise from NAI's employment practices
An argument put forward by Captain Stephen Coleman, whose filing said that he had worked at two separate airlines in the Norwegian Group, was that 'atypical' employment practices undermine safety standards and, "European regulators are unable to competently oversee the Norwegian Group".
'Atypical' employment refers to employment on terms other than an open-ended employment contract; these include self-employment, fixed-term work and work via temporary work agencies, as well as zero-hour contracts and pay-to-fly schemes.
Some opponents claim safety concerns arise from NAI's employment practices
An argument put forward by Captain Stephen Coleman, whose filing said that he had worked at two separate airlines in the Norwegian Group, was that 'atypical' employment practices undermine safety standards and, "European regulators are unable to competently oversee the Norwegian Group".
'Atypical' employment refers to employment on terms other than an open-ended employment contract; these include self-employment, fixed-term work and work via temporary work agencies, as well as zero-hour contracts and pay-to-fly schemes.
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sydney
Posts: 272
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Inkjet;
Page 55 of the EU Commission funded, Atypical Employment in Aviation Report, defines atypical employment as:
“Atypical employment in the European aviation industry generally manifests itself as fixed-term work, part-time work, fixed-term work via work agencies, (bogus) self-employment and/or zero-hour contracts”
https://www.eurocockpit.be/sites/def..._15_0212_f.pdf
As you know, Orient Ship Management agency is fractionally owned by a distant, non-airline, Norwegian asset/holding/resource group. OSM employs pilots and flight attendants and rents them temporarily to a Norwegian AOC airline. Crews may be returned to OSM by the respective Norwegian airline, without notice reason or recourse.
This airline “unemployment” shell game is clearly an atypical labor model, previously described by the DOT as “novel and complex”. The scheme permits Norwegian to have favorable financing from the banks. As confirmed by Kjos to VG News:
”Norwegian boss is crystal clear that he is not at all interested in negotiating the pilots demands for connection to the parent NAS [the AOC holder] - This will eliminate our ability to finance the 240 planes. With such a model we would not have gotten the funding of the banks to operate”:
http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/k...lt/a/23408996/
The hypocrisy of the Norwegian regime never ceases to amaze. Kjos wrote to the DOT on June 1, 2015, testifying;
“Norwegian has regularly utilized the services of employment agencies for the recruitment of temporary provision of crews for a transitional period of 24-26 months in connection with the opening of new bases”
Is the statement by Kjos honest or dishonest?
https://www.regulations.gov/document...2013-0204-0203
(open pdf file and scroll to letter)
Page 55 of the EU Commission funded, Atypical Employment in Aviation Report, defines atypical employment as:
“Atypical employment in the European aviation industry generally manifests itself as fixed-term work, part-time work, fixed-term work via work agencies, (bogus) self-employment and/or zero-hour contracts”
https://www.eurocockpit.be/sites/def..._15_0212_f.pdf
As you know, Orient Ship Management agency is fractionally owned by a distant, non-airline, Norwegian asset/holding/resource group. OSM employs pilots and flight attendants and rents them temporarily to a Norwegian AOC airline. Crews may be returned to OSM by the respective Norwegian airline, without notice reason or recourse.
This airline “unemployment” shell game is clearly an atypical labor model, previously described by the DOT as “novel and complex”. The scheme permits Norwegian to have favorable financing from the banks. As confirmed by Kjos to VG News:
”Norwegian boss is crystal clear that he is not at all interested in negotiating the pilots demands for connection to the parent NAS [the AOC holder] - This will eliminate our ability to finance the 240 planes. With such a model we would not have gotten the funding of the banks to operate”:
http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/k...lt/a/23408996/
The hypocrisy of the Norwegian regime never ceases to amaze. Kjos wrote to the DOT on June 1, 2015, testifying;
“Norwegian has regularly utilized the services of employment agencies for the recruitment of temporary provision of crews for a transitional period of 24-26 months in connection with the opening of new bases”
Is the statement by Kjos honest or dishonest?
https://www.regulations.gov/document...2013-0204-0203
(open pdf file and scroll to letter)
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
January 03, 2017
US DOT
.... request of Norwegian Air UK_Limited (“NAUK”) for “expedited processing ...… of December 21, 2016
--- Motion of Norwegian Air UK Limited for Expedited Treatment
For the reasons we have previously stated in this docket,
involving NAUK’s corporate affiliate Norwegian Air International,
however,
the Department should propose to deny
As it stands, NAUK’s application raises serious questions about whether its business plan is consistent with the requirements for issuance of a foreign air carrier permit set out in the aviation statutes (49 U.S.C. § 41302) and with Article 17 bis of the U.S.-EU Air Transport Agreement. Because of these concerns, the Labor Parties have asked DOT to seek additional information from NAUK in order to clarify the carrier’s staffing plans for its services to the U.S.
Norwegian Air UK’s application ---- unless NAUK commits to ensure ---- that the pilots and flight attendants who will operate its transatlantic flights will be based in the United Kingdom or the U.S. and will be employed by UK or U.S. employers on Contracts --- Governed by UK or US Law.........
NOTE:
" .......Contracts --- Governed by UK or U.S. Law...... " :
- O . S . M. Orient Ship Management - Cyprus / Asia
- PLUS
- 26 Twenty Six "Norwegian " Subsidiaries =
= The Definition of Shell Gamesmanship with multi complex jurisdictions
US DOT
.... request of Norwegian Air UK_Limited (“NAUK”) for “expedited processing ...… of December 21, 2016
--- Motion of Norwegian Air UK Limited for Expedited Treatment
For the reasons we have previously stated in this docket,
involving NAUK’s corporate affiliate Norwegian Air International,
however,
the Department should propose to deny
As it stands, NAUK’s application raises serious questions about whether its business plan is consistent with the requirements for issuance of a foreign air carrier permit set out in the aviation statutes (49 U.S.C. § 41302) and with Article 17 bis of the U.S.-EU Air Transport Agreement. Because of these concerns, the Labor Parties have asked DOT to seek additional information from NAUK in order to clarify the carrier’s staffing plans for its services to the U.S.
Norwegian Air UK’s application ---- unless NAUK commits to ensure ---- that the pilots and flight attendants who will operate its transatlantic flights will be based in the United Kingdom or the U.S. and will be employed by UK or U.S. employers on Contracts --- Governed by UK or US Law.........
NOTE:
" .......Contracts --- Governed by UK or U.S. Law...... " :
- O . S . M. Orient Ship Management - Cyprus / Asia
- PLUS
- 26 Twenty Six "Norwegian " Subsidiaries =
= The Definition of Shell Gamesmanship with multi complex jurisdictions
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: gate 67 JFK
Posts: 690
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
marvel man for gods sake change the record man...
This is old new and utterly meaningless, there is no requirement for NUK to employ only Brits or Yanks, although it does and Norwegian employs more American nationals than any other airline outside of the USA.
So the clock is ticking and lets see if Trump rejects NUK application or revokes NAI approval
This is old new and utterly meaningless, there is no requirement for NUK to employ only Brits or Yanks, although it does and Norwegian employs more American nationals than any other airline outside of the USA.
So the clock is ticking and lets see if Trump rejects NUK application or revokes NAI approval
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Very Amusing ! These "Stubborn Facts" are JUST the Only Facts.
INTERVIEW - The Sunday Times
Freddie Laker of the fjords in a dogfight with Americans
The transatlantic expansion plans of former fighter pilot Bjorn Kjos rest on defeating the US foes of his budget carrier, Norwegian Air Shuttle.
Bjorn Kjos prods the table with a meaty finger. An expression between a grimace and a smile furrows his face.
“It’s bull****,” says the chief executive of Norwegian Air Shuttle. “This is either political or somebody has a private agenda.”
The boss of Europe’s third-biggest budget airline is warming to his favourite theme: his battle to break into the most lucrative sector of the aviation industry — transatlantic travel.
The “bull****” is the accusations made by rival carriers, including the allegation his plan hinges on using cheap Asian workers.
“They say we are using Bangkok crew. We don’t have any Bangkok crew or Asian crew in Ireland or in other places. ......."
Link----- http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/no...kies-mgtcf6bj9
AND AGAIN :
In a recent letter to EC Commissioner for Transport, Norwegian's CEO writes:
....." With respect to the facts," ......
... asserts .... " Norwegian bases many crewmembers operating transatlantic services in Bangkok "....... "This is simply false".....!
.....signed......Bjorn Kjos, CEO, Norwegian Group.
https://www.regulations.gov/document...013-0204-15120
AND--- THEN, THE "STUBBORN" REALITY:
Norwegian / London - Las Vegas flight - maiden voyage, PICTURE...WITH ...FULL Bangkok cabin crew :
http://imgur.com/a/il7sj
http://imgur.com/a/il7sj
Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet
Norwegian Air fantasy, for the " Baghdad Bob Award " .
" Baghdad Bob Award " :
Named after the Iraqi information minister who dispensed ludicrously false reports at the beginning of the Iraq War. Remember, Baghdad Bob (Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf) gained celebrity status by making up incredible and wholly imaginary victories for the Iraqi forces and ignoring facts (e.g. the U.S. and allied forces were routing Iraqi troops) that were blindingly obvious and instantaneously supported by video evidence.
Furthermore:
F Y I - Trump is NOT the Only Way !
This is an Ongoing - Never Ending "War" , and, in the End , Norwegian's B K will Lose !
aviation statutes (49 U.S.C. § 41302) and with Article 17 bis of the U.S.-EU Air Transport Agreement.
involving NAUK’s corporate affiliate Norwegian Air International,
unless NAUK commits to ensure
NAUK.......Contracts --- Governed by UK or U.S. Law......
AND--- THEN, THE "STUBBORN" REALITY:
- O . S . M. Orient Ship Management - Cyprus / Asia
- PLUS
- 26 Twenty Six "Norwegian " Subsidiaries =
= The Definition of Shell Gamesmanship with multi complex jurisdictions
INTERVIEW - The Sunday Times
Freddie Laker of the fjords in a dogfight with Americans
The transatlantic expansion plans of former fighter pilot Bjorn Kjos rest on defeating the US foes of his budget carrier, Norwegian Air Shuttle.
Bjorn Kjos prods the table with a meaty finger. An expression between a grimace and a smile furrows his face.
“It’s bull****,” says the chief executive of Norwegian Air Shuttle. “This is either political or somebody has a private agenda.”
The boss of Europe’s third-biggest budget airline is warming to his favourite theme: his battle to break into the most lucrative sector of the aviation industry — transatlantic travel.
The “bull****” is the accusations made by rival carriers, including the allegation his plan hinges on using cheap Asian workers.
“They say we are using Bangkok crew. We don’t have any Bangkok crew or Asian crew in Ireland or in other places. ......."
Link----- http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/no...kies-mgtcf6bj9
AND AGAIN :
In a recent letter to EC Commissioner for Transport, Norwegian's CEO writes:
....." With respect to the facts," ......
... asserts .... " Norwegian bases many crewmembers operating transatlantic services in Bangkok "....... "This is simply false".....!
.....signed......Bjorn Kjos, CEO, Norwegian Group.
https://www.regulations.gov/document...013-0204-15120
AND--- THEN, THE "STUBBORN" REALITY:
Norwegian / London - Las Vegas flight - maiden voyage, PICTURE...WITH ...FULL Bangkok cabin crew :
http://imgur.com/a/il7sj
http://imgur.com/a/il7sj
Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet
Norwegian Air fantasy, for the " Baghdad Bob Award " .
" Baghdad Bob Award " :
Named after the Iraqi information minister who dispensed ludicrously false reports at the beginning of the Iraq War. Remember, Baghdad Bob (Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf) gained celebrity status by making up incredible and wholly imaginary victories for the Iraqi forces and ignoring facts (e.g. the U.S. and allied forces were routing Iraqi troops) that were blindingly obvious and instantaneously supported by video evidence.
Furthermore:
F Y I - Trump is NOT the Only Way !
This is an Ongoing - Never Ending "War" , and, in the End , Norwegian's B K will Lose !
aviation statutes (49 U.S.C. § 41302) and with Article 17 bis of the U.S.-EU Air Transport Agreement.
involving NAUK’s corporate affiliate Norwegian Air International,
unless NAUK commits to ensure
NAUK.......Contracts --- Governed by UK or U.S. Law......
AND--- THEN, THE "STUBBORN" REALITY:
- O . S . M. Orient Ship Management - Cyprus / Asia
- PLUS
- 26 Twenty Six "Norwegian " Subsidiaries =
= The Definition of Shell Gamesmanship with multi complex jurisdictions
Last edited by marvelman; 23rd Jan 2017 at 03:42. Reason: -- unless NAUK commits to ensure --- aviation statutes (49 U.S.C. § 41302) and with Article 17 bis of the U.S.-EU Air Transpo
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sydney
Posts: 272
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Here’s another post the DOT, media and traveling public may wish to consider as evidence regarding Norwegian’s “agency employment/airline unemployment” shell game and associated labor troubles, that may seriously affect its 737 and 787 services:
“People want to strike, because they are very tired of Norwegian and their attitude during the negotiations”
“Norwegian delaying collective labor agreement negotiations as much as possible - Norwegian in full dispute with cabin employee unions in the United States and Spain”:
http://www.dagbladet.no/nyheter/norw...mulig/66770816
A spokesman for the Spanish union, USO, said, “It is most important that the crew be recognized as workers for the airline and not a staffing company”.
The International Labor Organization guide, Regulating the Employment Relationship in Europe, Section 2, Determining the existence of an employment relationship, page 38, - indicates there is an "employment relationship” between the crew member and the Norwegian AOC airline.
The ILO guide may be downloaded at:
http://www.ilo.org/wcmsp5/groups/pub...cms_209280.pdf
Remember; Kjos wrote to the DOT on June 1, 2015, testifying;
“Norwegian has regularly utilized the services of employment agencies for the recruitment of temporary provision of crews for a transitional period of 24-26 months in connection with the opening of new bases”
Temporary and transitional, indeed.
“People want to strike, because they are very tired of Norwegian and their attitude during the negotiations”
“Norwegian delaying collective labor agreement negotiations as much as possible - Norwegian in full dispute with cabin employee unions in the United States and Spain”:
http://www.dagbladet.no/nyheter/norw...mulig/66770816
A spokesman for the Spanish union, USO, said, “It is most important that the crew be recognized as workers for the airline and not a staffing company”.
The International Labor Organization guide, Regulating the Employment Relationship in Europe, Section 2, Determining the existence of an employment relationship, page 38, - indicates there is an "employment relationship” between the crew member and the Norwegian AOC airline.
The ILO guide may be downloaded at:
http://www.ilo.org/wcmsp5/groups/pub...cms_209280.pdf
Remember; Kjos wrote to the DOT on June 1, 2015, testifying;
“Norwegian has regularly utilized the services of employment agencies for the recruitment of temporary provision of crews for a transitional period of 24-26 months in connection with the opening of new bases”
Temporary and transitional, indeed.
Last edited by Direct Bondi; 23rd Jan 2017 at 13:12. Reason: correct ILO guide link
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: 日本
Posts: 456
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Marvelman and Direct Bondi,
Please stop your constant de-railing of this topic. Besides your ridiculous formatting (both of you), which makes it almost impossible to read your posts, you are not contributing anything to the terms and endearments of Norwegian 787 based in LGW. Your constant vendettas are boring and this is not the forum for your soapbox postulating. If you wish to spout forth on all things union etc with NAS then open your own thread in a different section so others don't have to have your constant interruptions on the Ts & Cs of this airline. You've both got some sort of bug to bear with the company (although from New York and Sydney I can't really see the connection to LGW and you've both refused to say why constantly dip your oars in) but your sniping at every turn is ruining the thread for everyone else.
All pilots should be very aware of the pros AND the cons of any airline and I am not, for one moment, saying that the poor pay, lack of days off, absence of pension etc should not be promulgated. What I am saying, however, is your constant news links to union news or what's happening in the USA with Trump etc should have their own subject heading, so that we might ignore your tedious rants and concentrate on the subject.
Please stop your constant de-railing of this topic. Besides your ridiculous formatting (both of you), which makes it almost impossible to read your posts, you are not contributing anything to the terms and endearments of Norwegian 787 based in LGW. Your constant vendettas are boring and this is not the forum for your soapbox postulating. If you wish to spout forth on all things union etc with NAS then open your own thread in a different section so others don't have to have your constant interruptions on the Ts & Cs of this airline. You've both got some sort of bug to bear with the company (although from New York and Sydney I can't really see the connection to LGW and you've both refused to say why constantly dip your oars in) but your sniping at every turn is ruining the thread for everyone else.
All pilots should be very aware of the pros AND the cons of any airline and I am not, for one moment, saying that the poor pay, lack of days off, absence of pension etc should not be promulgated. What I am saying, however, is your constant news links to union news or what's happening in the USA with Trump etc should have their own subject heading, so that we might ignore your tedious rants and concentrate on the subject.
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: 日本
Posts: 456
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This topic is much better now I've 'ignored' Marvelman and Direct Bondi but that does mean I have to log in, instead of just lurking. It's a shame there's no moderator to rid this thread of extraneous nonsense and irrelevant chest pounding from copy and paste 'experts'.
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sand free now
Posts: 193
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have to say I disagree with the last couple of posts. Norwegian is by far and away the most controversial European employer around. There are very many who consider them as the vanguard of future decimation of our terms and conditions and if they do end up using asian cheap labour on european registered aircraft then god help us all. Yes, DB and M posts are a bit repetitive but they are still better than the regular requests for sample schedules by the tempted few.
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: PBI
Posts: 215
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think POTUS Trump will be bringing Norwegian to a screeching halt this week.
New DOT Secretary just sworn in.
U.S. Airline Pilots Rally at White House: Will Ask Trump To Block Obama's Export of White-Collar Jobs - Breitbart
New DOT Secretary just sworn in.
U.S. Airline Pilots Rally at White House: Will Ask Trump To Block Obama's Export of White-Collar Jobs - Breitbart
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: 日本
Posts: 456
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
JaxofMarlow,
I'm not saying that M and DB are wrong or that their arguments do not have merit. What I am saying is this is not the place for their soapboxing. By all means, create a thread elsewhere and discuss the rights, wrongs and politics of Norwegian, Trump, unions etc etc etc but ELSEWHERE and not in the Terms & Endearments thread. Their constant bitching does nothing to enhance the knowledge base here, especially when neither has admitted to having any, actual, experience of Norwegian other than what they've read or heard about elsewhere. Their 'facts' are merely repetition of others' words.
I will not add any more comments as I'm well aware that I am derailing the thread and can be accused of doing exactly what they are doing......albeit to a far lesser extent.
Back to Norwegian 787....LGW...terms & endearments.
I'm not saying that M and DB are wrong or that their arguments do not have merit. What I am saying is this is not the place for their soapboxing. By all means, create a thread elsewhere and discuss the rights, wrongs and politics of Norwegian, Trump, unions etc etc etc but ELSEWHERE and not in the Terms & Endearments thread. Their constant bitching does nothing to enhance the knowledge base here, especially when neither has admitted to having any, actual, experience of Norwegian other than what they've read or heard about elsewhere. Their 'facts' are merely repetition of others' words.
I will not add any more comments as I'm well aware that I am derailing the thread and can be accused of doing exactly what they are doing......albeit to a far lesser extent.
Back to Norwegian 787....LGW...terms & endearments.
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: gate 67 JFK
Posts: 690
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Macdo
You rather miss the point, even if Trump were to revoke NAI Dot approval Norwegian will still continue to operate to the US under European skies through their Norwegian AOC.
With Brexit looming he is very unlikely to block NUK application, the Uk being his NBF
Ironically it is the fact that the DoT have held approval for so long that has forced Norwegian to fly to mainly the US because it works better with the restrictions than without them, otherwise Norwegian could utilise the crews in a better way for non US long haul destinations
With Brexit looming he is very unlikely to block NUK application, the Uk being his NBF
Ironically it is the fact that the DoT have held approval for so long that has forced Norwegian to fly to mainly the US because it works better with the restrictions than without them, otherwise Norwegian could utilise the crews in a better way for non US long haul destinations
Mr Trump, better than anyone, understands that money and business are God. It's not just us on this side of the Atlantic that benefit from discounted flights - the Yanks are pretty savvy and cost conscious too. I don't think there'll be any patriotic loyalty to their own airlines if there is a better deal to be had with Norwegian.
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Moon
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hello, everyone,
With an interview scheduled as RCA, reading this post at length trying to find more information about terms and conditions, and also about "how it is" to actually work there.
I know about the low pay... I'd be taking a paycut for sure, but then, reading :
and the fact that this is under the OSM contract that you sign after 3 years...
Seriously, I don't understand it... this is decent pay really... so:
- why would norwegian do that ?
- why don't they talk about it properly to attract more people ?
- is this really true ? This could be the make or break for me
On another note, they sent me some rosters, hotels are on there, I checked, its not that crap, and most layovers to california seemed to be 48h...
I would love to get more insight about all this...
Info about the OSM contract, and how it really is to work for NLH. How's the training ? The command course for an RCA. How long to the upgrade btw ? How's the atmosphere ? Are people happy at work ? How are the other pilots to work with ? How is the relationship with direct management, training, ground staff, the crew ?
Thanks :-)
With an interview scheduled as RCA, reading this post at length trying to find more information about terms and conditions, and also about "how it is" to actually work there.
I know about the low pay... I'd be taking a paycut for sure, but then, reading :
Lets say you started out as an FO 3 years ago on LH. You just upgraded to captain on the osm contract year 1. Monthly pay :
Basic 8125 £
Per diems 913 £
Lets assume 89 hrs for the month and 4 unused standby duties : 4091 £
Total : 13129 £ plus pension comes in at 5 percent.
Assume a 4th year FO who failed his upgrade and on a OSM contract : Monthly pay 7852 £ plus 5 percent pension..
Basic 8125 £
Per diems 913 £
Lets assume 89 hrs for the month and 4 unused standby duties : 4091 £
Total : 13129 £ plus pension comes in at 5 percent.
Assume a 4th year FO who failed his upgrade and on a OSM contract : Monthly pay 7852 £ plus 5 percent pension..
Seriously, I don't understand it... this is decent pay really... so:
- why would norwegian do that ?
- why don't they talk about it properly to attract more people ?
- is this really true ? This could be the make or break for me
On another note, they sent me some rosters, hotels are on there, I checked, its not that crap, and most layovers to california seemed to be 48h...
I would love to get more insight about all this...
Info about the OSM contract, and how it really is to work for NLH. How's the training ? The command course for an RCA. How long to the upgrade btw ? How's the atmosphere ? Are people happy at work ? How are the other pilots to work with ? How is the relationship with direct management, training, ground staff, the crew ?
Thanks :-)
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sand free now
Posts: 193
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Do not forget that figures quoted are for LH captain after you have spent 3 years as FO.
I guess the questions you should be getting answers to are...
What's the pension ?
What's the lol ?
What's the sick pay ?
What's the increments every year ?
How much did you pay to get in ?
What are your employee rights as you work for OSM ?
Which union will you be a member of ?
If you do not actually know from them what the salary actually is have you wondered why?
I guess the questions you should be getting answers to are...
What's the pension ?
What's the lol ?
What's the sick pay ?
What's the increments every year ?
How much did you pay to get in ?
What are your employee rights as you work for OSM ?
Which union will you be a member of ?
If you do not actually know from them what the salary actually is have you wondered why?