Disgraceful Balpa and Unite Unions sold out bmi Crew!!
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Disgraceful Balpa and Unite Unions sold out bmi Crew!!
TURBULENT times at the Pilots’ union Balpa over the take over of BMI by British Airways.
Not only will many BMI pilots lose their jobs as BA plans to axe 1200 of there 2700 BMI staff, but those who are left say they’re are being short changed by their BA “brothers” in the union. BA pilots are not prepared to integrate BMI staff into their to their comfortable career structures- based on length of service and experience- instead placing those who survive the cull at the bottom of BA’s seniority list.
Thus BA staff are accused of seeking to capitalize from any career and benefit opportunities arising from the merger at the expense of their BMI counterparts.
Disgruntled BMI pilot’s hopes that Balpa would stand up for equality have been dashed, leading to claims that it is turning a blind eye because of “financial and vocals” clout that BA pilots- the biggest group- with in the union.
Balpa denies the claims, maintaining that the deal brings other BA benefits to BMI pilots and, in response to claims that integrated career structures were the preferred options for mergers and take- overs, listing other deals where no such integration took place. Fancy that; they all involved BA.
A very interesting read, this was published in the latest copy of Private eye!
BMI crew vs British Airways
"THE acrimonious fallout from the 2012 merger or British Airways and BMI, which saw some very non-comradely behavior on part of the BA pilots and their union BALPA towards their new colleagues (Eye 1312), continues.
Ex-BMI cabin crew in Belfast and Manchester, who lost their jobs at the old BMI regional bases around the UK, are currently pursuing employment tribunal cases against both airlines. Like the pilots, they claim they are being forced to go it alone because they were "sold out" by their trade union, which in this case is Unite.
In fact, in a novel application to the tribunal in Belfast this week, Catherine Horgan is seeking to add Unite as a defendant to her claim for unfair dismissal against the airlines, claiming that London based union representatives colluded with her employer. She says there was a conflict of interest because the London branch was dominated by BA staff who, like their pilot counterparts, were anxious to protect their career interests and seniority.
The trade union negotiators, she says, had also secured management jobs for themselves. She alleges that not only did her London “brothers” fail to support, consult or communicate with 100-plus BMI crew in the regions, but they also deliberately excluded the regions from a crucial ballot on new terms and conditions thrashed out between the union and BA.
Thus jobs for London-based crews, where unite has a huge membership in its own special BA branch, BASSA, were secured early in consultations, while those in the regions were left high and dry. Internal documents suggest that when the union’s (and indeed BA’s) initial legal advice went against self-preservation interests of BASSA staff, the union hired new lawyers in an attempt to thwart the BMI staff employment rights under TUPE rules (transfer of undertakings, protection of employment) which safeguard terms and conditions when staff transfer to new employers.
It won’t be the first time the courts have heard allegations of an airline union selling out its members, with a judge in one earlier case commenting on BA’s “rather unusual” relationship with its trade union branches.
Ms Horgan’s tribunal case is similar to those due to be heard in Manchester next January. Twenty-eight ex-BMI staff lead by Paula Spiers, the former Unite shop steward at Manchester, are variously alleging breach of contract, unfair dismissal, and sex and age discrimination. They say they were not, as BA claims, made redundant and instead were replaced by BA “Mixed Fleet” crew based in London, some of whom were recruited during the redundancy consultation.
The airlines and Unite dispute their claims.
Interestingly, Unite did bring a case for unfair dismissal in Belfast on behalf of 8 BMI crew in January- and lost. A delighted BA then tried to get Catherine Horgan’s claims dismissed on the back of the ruling, but failed. The airline also tried to persuade the tribunal in Manchester to strike out those claims- but failed again. Watch this space!
Not only will many BMI pilots lose their jobs as BA plans to axe 1200 of there 2700 BMI staff, but those who are left say they’re are being short changed by their BA “brothers” in the union. BA pilots are not prepared to integrate BMI staff into their to their comfortable career structures- based on length of service and experience- instead placing those who survive the cull at the bottom of BA’s seniority list.
Thus BA staff are accused of seeking to capitalize from any career and benefit opportunities arising from the merger at the expense of their BMI counterparts.
Disgruntled BMI pilot’s hopes that Balpa would stand up for equality have been dashed, leading to claims that it is turning a blind eye because of “financial and vocals” clout that BA pilots- the biggest group- with in the union.
Balpa denies the claims, maintaining that the deal brings other BA benefits to BMI pilots and, in response to claims that integrated career structures were the preferred options for mergers and take- overs, listing other deals where no such integration took place. Fancy that; they all involved BA.
A very interesting read, this was published in the latest copy of Private eye!
BMI crew vs British Airways
"THE acrimonious fallout from the 2012 merger or British Airways and BMI, which saw some very non-comradely behavior on part of the BA pilots and their union BALPA towards their new colleagues (Eye 1312), continues.
Ex-BMI cabin crew in Belfast and Manchester, who lost their jobs at the old BMI regional bases around the UK, are currently pursuing employment tribunal cases against both airlines. Like the pilots, they claim they are being forced to go it alone because they were "sold out" by their trade union, which in this case is Unite.
In fact, in a novel application to the tribunal in Belfast this week, Catherine Horgan is seeking to add Unite as a defendant to her claim for unfair dismissal against the airlines, claiming that London based union representatives colluded with her employer. She says there was a conflict of interest because the London branch was dominated by BA staff who, like their pilot counterparts, were anxious to protect their career interests and seniority.
The trade union negotiators, she says, had also secured management jobs for themselves. She alleges that not only did her London “brothers” fail to support, consult or communicate with 100-plus BMI crew in the regions, but they also deliberately excluded the regions from a crucial ballot on new terms and conditions thrashed out between the union and BA.
Thus jobs for London-based crews, where unite has a huge membership in its own special BA branch, BASSA, were secured early in consultations, while those in the regions were left high and dry. Internal documents suggest that when the union’s (and indeed BA’s) initial legal advice went against self-preservation interests of BASSA staff, the union hired new lawyers in an attempt to thwart the BMI staff employment rights under TUPE rules (transfer of undertakings, protection of employment) which safeguard terms and conditions when staff transfer to new employers.
It won’t be the first time the courts have heard allegations of an airline union selling out its members, with a judge in one earlier case commenting on BA’s “rather unusual” relationship with its trade union branches.
Ms Horgan’s tribunal case is similar to those due to be heard in Manchester next January. Twenty-eight ex-BMI staff lead by Paula Spiers, the former Unite shop steward at Manchester, are variously alleging breach of contract, unfair dismissal, and sex and age discrimination. They say they were not, as BA claims, made redundant and instead were replaced by BA “Mixed Fleet” crew based in London, some of whom were recruited during the redundancy consultation.
The airlines and Unite dispute their claims.
Interestingly, Unite did bring a case for unfair dismissal in Belfast on behalf of 8 BMI crew in January- and lost. A delighted BA then tried to get Catherine Horgan’s claims dismissed on the back of the ruling, but failed. The airline also tried to persuade the tribunal in Manchester to strike out those claims- but failed again. Watch this space!
Last edited by boac_boi; 24th Aug 2014 at 21:19.
If your Employer goes bust, BMI, surely you are lucky to be taken on by any buyer of the defunct business. BMI had been loosing money for years. You are obviously going to be somewhat disadvantaged by the established staff in the other business.
You surely can't expect BMI pilots to slot in ahead of long service BA pilots.
You surely can't expect BMI pilots to slot in ahead of long service BA pilots.
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Oh my goodness, I see that total ignorance of the law still reigns above enlightenment in this dog still eat dog world we inhabit. So if you are along for the ride with an acquisitive employer then you expect to feed off the spoils and let the hopeless and hapless starve? Survival of the fattest, eh? You think ...
Makes me wanna puke ...
Seems we are overdue a culture reset in some quarters.
As boac_boi says, Watch this space!
Makes me wanna puke ...
Seems we are overdue a culture reset in some quarters.
As boac_boi says, Watch this space!
You surely can't expect BMI pilots to slot in ahead of long service BA pilots.
BMI Engineers "slotted in" ahead of long service BA staff.
When I say slotted in, what I mean is under TUPE BA engineers were made redundant!
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No Surprise
under our democratic system, yes even in Unions, the majority rule and that is exactly what we are seeing here... Perhaps wrong, but under one vote per member, this outcome is not surprising.
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BA connect were loosing money, Flybe took them all on and integrated the pilots into the seniority list 1 for 1. BA connect pilots were also given a gift of £3000 during the transfer, Flybe pilots were given nothing.
BALPA said the integration of the seniority list was the law and it had to happen.
Funny how quickly they can change their minds when it suits them
BALPA said the integration of the seniority list was the law and it had to happen.
Funny how quickly they can change their minds when it suits them
Oh dear, can't speak for the ground staff, cabin crew, BASSA/UNITE because I'm not sure not sure what they did - but on the whole it's that part of the workforce that seems to be the subject of the Private Eye piece.
As for those pesky BA pilots ba_boi has dragged into the argument, I think he's remarkably uninformed, either that or I guess myself and many others must have imagined BA BALPA "ring fencing" a certain number of Long Haul commands for ex-BMI pilots.............and that whilst there might have been a few unfortunate casualties during cross over training, far from laying off BMI pilots, BA is now recruiting.
Perhaps the thread title should read "Disgraceful Unite/BASSA sold out BMI crew" and should be placed in the Cabin Crew section of Pprune, but I guess some will never let the facts get in the way of a good rant about the pilots.
As for those pesky BA pilots ba_boi has dragged into the argument, I think he's remarkably uninformed, either that or I guess myself and many others must have imagined BA BALPA "ring fencing" a certain number of Long Haul commands for ex-BMI pilots.............and that whilst there might have been a few unfortunate casualties during cross over training, far from laying off BMI pilots, BA is now recruiting.
Perhaps the thread title should read "Disgraceful Unite/BASSA sold out BMI crew" and should be placed in the Cabin Crew section of Pprune, but I guess some will never let the facts get in the way of a good rant about the pilots.
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Agree on the BMI pensions stuff and lost assets.. But that's about it. I'm sure Monarch Pilots would love to be taken over by a bigger airline right now. The BA opportunity was an important one for BMI
Is it true that BA want to dispose of short haul to Veuling?
PS I'm not in BA
Is it true that BA want to dispose of short haul to Veuling?
PS I'm not in BA
Perhaps a little historical information would put the present in context.
In the seventies, when BOAC and BEA were amalgamated into BA, two other companies, Northeast and Cambrian, were also included. The seniority lists were integrated on the basis of Date of Joining.
Following the amalgamation, routes were dropped and fleets reduced. BOAC and BEA first officers lost out on time to command. Some of the Cambrian and Northeast captains did not have the seniority to retain a command in the new and much larger BA but 'redress training' back to the RHS took time and was received with bad grace by one or two who should have been grateful that they were now BA employees.
ISTR British Caledonian pilots were treated in a similarly agreeable manner (for them) when B-Cal was taken over by BA.
When Dan Air was taken over by BA the story was different. Those who were not qualified on the appropriate aircraft were not offered employment. Some Dan Air pilots had voluntarily forgone the conversion to which they were entitled and were, therefore not offered employment; a signal lesson to me, at the time, in looking after one's own career!
I cannot remember if those ex DANs fortunate enough to be employed were integrated into the seniority list or joined at the bottom; I seem to recollect the former.
Which brings us to BMI. AFAIK, the BMI pilots became BA pilots but joined at the bottom of the seniority list. The BMI captains retained their commands. If I had been one of them, I'd have been happy with that.
A lot of one's whole career depends partly on competence and largely on luck and choices made without the benefit of a crystal ball. I've had colleagues join British companies which went bust with no BA safety net and others who joined, e.g., Emirates, right at their inception when the rest of us were saying "Ooh, err, new startup - risky." You pays yer money and takes yer chance.
In the seventies, when BOAC and BEA were amalgamated into BA, two other companies, Northeast and Cambrian, were also included. The seniority lists were integrated on the basis of Date of Joining.
Following the amalgamation, routes were dropped and fleets reduced. BOAC and BEA first officers lost out on time to command. Some of the Cambrian and Northeast captains did not have the seniority to retain a command in the new and much larger BA but 'redress training' back to the RHS took time and was received with bad grace by one or two who should have been grateful that they were now BA employees.
ISTR British Caledonian pilots were treated in a similarly agreeable manner (for them) when B-Cal was taken over by BA.
When Dan Air was taken over by BA the story was different. Those who were not qualified on the appropriate aircraft were not offered employment. Some Dan Air pilots had voluntarily forgone the conversion to which they were entitled and were, therefore not offered employment; a signal lesson to me, at the time, in looking after one's own career!
I cannot remember if those ex DANs fortunate enough to be employed were integrated into the seniority list or joined at the bottom; I seem to recollect the former.
Which brings us to BMI. AFAIK, the BMI pilots became BA pilots but joined at the bottom of the seniority list. The BMI captains retained their commands. If I had been one of them, I'd have been happy with that.
A lot of one's whole career depends partly on competence and largely on luck and choices made without the benefit of a crystal ball. I've had colleagues join British companies which went bust with no BA safety net and others who joined, e.g., Emirates, right at their inception when the rest of us were saying "Ooh, err, new startup - risky." You pays yer money and takes yer chance.
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In the 1980's I tried to get a national seniority list based on date of joining at a Balpa conference. I was accused of being divisive, shame it wasn't introduced.
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I cannot remember if those ex DANs fortunate enough to be employed were integrated into the seniority list or joined at the bottom; I seem to recollect the former.
Cambrian and North East skippers went under the title of Klingons if memory is correct .
I was explaining the formation of BA to a non airline guest and used the 'K' word.
A polite cough from the other end of the table alerted me to the fact that one of our guests was ex Cambrian
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Originally Posted by Basil
I seem to recollect the former.
The lesson for all is: 3000 BA pilots in BALPA against 120 in DanAir at acquisition (change as appropriate). A quick look at 'history' would have dissuaded the BMI pilots to believe anything else!
