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Thomson recruitment.

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Thomson recruitment.

Old 30th Jul 2015, 10:02
  #161 (permalink)  
 
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There's been a fair bit of vitriol in some posts here. I guess their authors won't be applying which is good because it means the rest of us won't need to listen to it on some of those very long days out.

For the rest, TOM Ts and Cs have taken a shoeing, no doubt about it. I still however believe that the package is attractive and the long term career prospects equally do. We have pilots 18 months in on the 757/767 and the 787 has gone a lot further down the seniority list than was first expected. Most pilots are now in the base of their choice. I'd guess that next bid round we will have guys on the 787 who've been in the company less than 4 years.

The pension issue is not yet resolved but as is usual with those who get a kick from sitting outside and chucking rocks, the truth is rather more straightforward than the fiction. For sure, the pension for new joiners is on the company's list but there is more than one way to skin a cat. The negotiation team is closing in on a deal that by definition will need to be ready for day one of the selection days because that will be the first question. I'd guess that the overall value of the package won't be vastly different. For those struggling to read between the lines, that's an educated guess.

My long held ambition of widening our net to include non type rated guys is looking very good now. Cadets have been of the highest standard (with one or two exceptions but they are no longer here) and the TOM system of recruiting them from within has widened that particular pool out to negate some of the effects of ability to pay rather than to fly.

In short, not the airline I joined but I don't live in the world that existed back then either. To those who'd like to take it on, you'll fly with a great bunch who'll moan continuously about management in a pretty low key kind of way, then give up and just have a pleasant day out talking waffle mainly, you'll get a pretty good pay package in the overall scheme of things and pretty much everything else is paid for. If it all goes wrong there's a not bad package of loss of Licence and medical etc as well as death in service. Don't forget to tell your mortgage provider about that, it can relieve you of a fair bit of insurance requirements. Crew food is not great and the uniform was made by the lowest bidder but hey ho, someone else is paying there too. The aircraft are all pretty new, sure the 737 is hard going in summer bit has a quieter winter, bad news if your 6'4" like me, the 756s on the Historic Flight are getting a bit elderly but the cabin refresh I'm told makes them pleasant and the 78 if it's your thing is something else.

To those that want to snipe, I'll leave you with two thoughts. A mate of mine had a few wets with me last night. We trained together. He works BA Short Haul and awaits a command. He has just done 5 nights away and Max sectors and is constantly nibbling at 900 hours. Which brings me to my second point. I've had a command 9 years, 3 nights is about max and that's long haul, fairly close to max duty time on individual sectors but lots of time off in between and about 600 hours.

Good luck to all. Those who apply because I think you'll like it, those who knock it, because you'll need it with some if the attitudes shown.
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Old 30th Jul 2015, 14:12
  #162 (permalink)  
 
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Yeoman, thank you for the detailed information.

As someone clearly in the know, are you able to confirm if it will still be initially a PPY50 contract as mentioned from previous rounds of recruitment? From reading the posts on here from the naysayers, it sounds slightly less than desirable - are there some mitigating factors, or is it indeed as painted on this thread? Similarly, will the £7k training fee still be required from TR applicants?
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Old 30th Jul 2015, 14:20
  #163 (permalink)  
 
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Civ

I've no indication that it will be any different. The pension is still being discussed. Last time the PPY50 situation changed it did so more if less overnight. I think the chances of being in it for 5 years are slim but I'm really am nit in a position to comment on that. Part if the problem is the expectation created after the first batch were made full time inside a year. You need to sign the contract preparing for the worst and doing the full 5 years IMHO, and hope for the best.

If I'm absolutely honest, if I was 17 years back in my career and looking at the options now, TOM and VS would be my aspiration. BA Long Haul at a pinch.

Good luck and ignore the naysayers, in my experience there's usually a story behind it.
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Old 30th Jul 2015, 14:39
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Many thanks again Yeoman, your time is much appreciated. Refreshing to hear some positivity on here for once, especially form a well informed source

I guess there is no point getting too caught up in this now - the first major hurdle will be to get the nod, at which point all questions will be answered and one can make an informed decision.
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Old 30th Jul 2015, 16:45
  #165 (permalink)  
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Despite our occasional differences, I would generally agree with yeoman. I like my job, I fly the B757/767. Historic Aircraft Flight (ahem!). When we bitch about management, it is generally because,
a We have little else to complain about.
b It's what pilots do.
c Not all management ideas are good.
d We don't really like change.
e Many of us very much disagree with enforced PPY50 and charging new pilots for part of their training.
f We want to aggressively defend pension rights.

Been here for 27 years in its various guises. Would I do it again? Yes.

I love flying the 757 and am still a big kid at heart.

My immediate aspiration is that the Co has fewer potential recruits who now have a choice of employer and that it has to improve its offer to attract the right candidates.

To those considering applying, Yeoman is right and good luck.

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Old 30th Jul 2015, 17:39
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Awww, Pete. You do love he after all!
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Old 31st Jul 2015, 10:15
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MON

Different philosophies and different stages in the ever changing life cycle of an airline for the two operators?

No airline since Icarus has managed to effectively predict the market or the correct establishment of both aircraft and crew to effectively service that market. Both operators have offloaded staff, TOM immediately post merger which was arguably the logical time to "realise synergies" (barf) by removing duplication, TCX when the wheels so very nearly came off altogether. Both are now realising that they overdid it (but the bonuses are safely banked so no harm done) and that markets are recovering so there is a need to re recruit.

I don't know what arrangements exist between TCX BALPA and management but in TOM the original PPY 50 was designed to maintain a summer establishment number to preserve both existing jobs and promotion prospects, such as they were. This put a stop to the company's clear intention to establish to winter numbers and buy in the required additional summer capacity. TOM currently has external capacity in terms of airframes at SND and quasi external capacity at BFS and DUB. Total 3 but I standby to be corrected.

I don't know how much external capacity TCX has with EZY but I did hear some quite big numbers? That's for someone better informed to answer.

Meanwhile, we are increasing the 787 fleet by 4. This is very crew hungry running at up to 12 crews / airframe. That said, it is phenomenally efficient, the pax love it and it is tearing holes out of other operators. I've been on it for 3 months now and gave flown 1 sector that wasn't a full load (1 empty seat). Premium cabin has been full on every one. As TOM charges a fee for standard never mind Premium, it appears people are prepared to pay. We also get c17 hours per airframe out of in a day against the global fleet average of c10/day.

This exaggerates PPY thing in the short term because the additional need for 787 pilots is being wholly sourced from within which has cleared out a lot of 737 seats. These will be recruit filled and the 737 works it's little socks off over the summer and goes very quiet in winter. There is some work in Canada that is the other side of the quasi external source in Ireland mentioned above. Thus is a reciprocal arrangement with TUI group airline Sunwing who have their peak demand in winter, as do our Swedish colleagues TUIFly Nordic. Some of this us bitched by the Germans who are struggling with the concept of cooperation and send pilots to Canada but won't accept any by return.

What that all means is that a reasonable number, 30 odd, PPY guys are technically PPY but because they go to Canada, they earn full time. They are put up in fully furnished apartments, have a car and funded flights out and back for themselves and their families should they so wish. For sure, not ideal if you don't fancy the frozen north or have kids in school or a wife who works and if course you have to go to be paid.

In short, PPY reduced redundancies and avoided demotions totally. It avoids contract or seasonal pilots and promotions. It keeps work in house and can be switched off with a phone call rather than having to run recruitment should the need arise. Once switched off for an individual, it's off. Much maligned, I see it as a shaky start to a relatively great future for anyone joining TOM. Sure, Ts and Cs will slide across the board but at TOM at least you'll be starting further up. You'll also join an airline with full permanent contract rights of access to healthcare, LoL etc. But then I would say that, I'm in the left hand seat of an aircraft that's an airborne orgasm and I've got 10 years to push because I've set my life up to poke off at 60.

I've also spent a considerable amount of said life trying to negotiate a better deal and continue to support that process by being on The CC. So please, spare me the lectures.
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Old 31st Jul 2015, 10:53
  #168 (permalink)  
 
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Dear all

Could you please stop PMing me. I appreciate a lot of you are desperate to get a heads up and for a job but a couple of points if I may.

1. I applaud your initiative in trying to get ahead of "the competition" but I believe in a level playing field. It also means the best candidate is the best candidate rather than the one who had all the answers beforehand!

2. It probably won't help anyway as the people who are going to look at you are good at spotting bull****ters. They are pilots and are therefore the Kings (and Queens) of Bull**** Detection.

3. Usual advice applies. Be yourself. If you're an experienced guy, don't tell the people that you're not really that bothered as you've got a job anyway or where you think TOM is a crap airline (and ergo the pilot interviewing you is a numpty for putting up with it). I've seen both. Hmmmm, interesting technique. Hiws it going in Air Kazakhstan anyway?

4. Usual advice for the exciting candidates IMHO, guys going for that first job. You'll find TOM pilots genuinely switched on by this. Keen, bright, eager; all the things this job should be about. Don't sweat it when you're drinking coffee with the astronaut at the start of the day. They'll be looking for the thing in you that fits what they want, not the thing the astronaut thinks they want. Be you. "I don't know but I'm willing to learn" will cut it a lot better than "well in my experience the best way to do it is this, (contrary to the TOM SOPs)"

5. This is not rocket science. Can you work well under pressure, follow simple instructions and assimilate information? Are you the person I want sat next to me on a **** night in Corfu (there are no other types of night in Corfu, other destinations are available) when ATC have lost the plot, CBs are all over the place and the aircraft ahead has just lost all its hydraulics on the runway, blocking it?

6. Past selections have included:

A. A flight planning exercise which will require some thought.

B. A group discussion on a fairly random topic that establishes who makes a lot of noise without saying anything and who says nothing at all. Clue, neither are good options. Can you influence people?

C. A technical test that for those operating a TOM type will probably be type specific to some degree. I've no idea how this would pan out for non TR but use your brain, at a guess, applicable ATPL stuff and Perf A?

D. An event based interview. This is pretty much the only time managers or HR get actively involved but again, a pilot's in there too. Think about the obvious questions, what is the core business - customers. HR will watch all the events, they're experts in body language and Billy Big Time Detection. Do not try and scam these people, you WILL lose. What's the key roll of pilots- working together and problem solving. An event based interview is where you are asked to use your own life examples. 2+2=4. New guys, it doesn't have to be aviation based so don't fret if you've no airline experience. I used to like the non aviation ones because they weren't predictable and were interesting. You want to be noticed by being interesting for the right reasons. BE YOU.

So, that's it. No more PMs please and good luck
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Old 31st Jul 2015, 11:12
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Thanks to all those who have taken considerable time to share information about Thomson.


Just a couple of quick questions;


What are the chances of getting based in GLA/EDI if 737 rated?
Do GLA based crews do any Longhaul?
Do the 737 guys do many night stops?


I appreciate that Thomson may not be the place to go for a quick command, but having 25-30 years left it looks like not a bad place to spend them.
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Old 31st Jul 2015, 11:49
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Impossible to say as the base bid throws up oddities every year. Both have been traditionally closed bases IE difficult to get into, EDI only opened last year though. There's been some movement out of late so never say never. NCL is traditionally a less popular base so may be an option if you're tgat side of the country?

No, they don't do long haul but do some mid haul night stops, SSH, SID, BVC, HRG etc. Not sure what the exact status is right now though

Much touted after the bid for Summer 16 is the balancing of bases is now pretty close to what they want IE the number of UK out if base operations should be down. Again, there will be others better able to comment but GLA and EDI are probably towards the lower end for nights away. One or two a month in high summer? Honestly, don't really know.
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Old 31st Jul 2015, 12:54
  #171 (permalink)  
 
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Yeoman

If you describe the 787 as an airborne orgasm you have to expect to be inundated. Sex sells you know. But now I understand why some of the age 60+ part timers are going full time to fly it.

Last edited by Tarisio; 31st Jul 2015 at 19:18.
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Old 31st Jul 2015, 16:47
  #172 (permalink)  
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The aircraft is very popular but not everyone wants to do long haul. At the moment, it's MAN or LGW basing only for the 787.

I'm GLA based. No long haul except the odd cruise flt in the winter and rostering out of base to cover a very limited line of LH also in the winter. The safe assumption at GLA is 757 flying and SH only as the 787 will do most, if not all the LH flying with the odd single nightstop in Sharm in the summer and two or three nights in the winter.

Very occasionally rostered 767 short haul out of another base.

Poss GLA basing as some FOs taking commands elsewhere. If you want GLA, ask but it's 757 only. EDI.? 737 base, but again, ask if you want it.

McC
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Old 31st Jul 2015, 17:12
  #173 (permalink)  
 
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To build in what McC says, it works as follows.

The company will advise you of bases available should you be successful. IIRC you are asked to state your preferences on the recruitment day.

You will then be offered a contract at a base.

On day one on your induction, two things happen. Firstly you get a seniority number. Seniority is allocated by date of joining and the individual course is separated out using numbers from a hat.

The second thing that happens is you are asked to complete a Standing Bid form. Whatever you do, think about this and bid for what you want and what you are prepared to accept. The reason for this is simple; although we run a full formal bid around July for next summer, people retire, resign, die, lose medicals etc and casual vacancies are filled by going down the seniority list until we hit the first bod that has bid for that base / fleet / rank combination. We've had new joiners into their base of choice within months of joining, including very popular bases. We've got people going on the 756 for Summer 16 with very few years behind them.

I've lost count of the number of people who've rung me, fed up because someone junior to them has just got what they wanted. 9/10 it's because "I didn't think it would be available". Slightly fewer are the guys who bid for something and then changed their mind but forgot to change their bid. We've been able to accommodate it usually because someone else lower down wanted it but if they hadn't, you're stuck with it!

Anyway, short of running a full induction course, I reckon that's about it from me. Thank Christ I hear from the naysayers.

To the pub!
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Old 1st Aug 2015, 06:45
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Originally Posted by McC
Despite our occasional differences, I would generally agree with yeoman. I like my job, I fly the B757/767. Historic Aircraft Flight (ahem!). When we bitch about management, it is generally because,
a We have little else to complain about.
b It's what pilots do.
c Not all management ideas are good.
d We don't really like change.
e Many of us very much disagree with enforced PPY50 and charging new pilots for part of their training.
f We want to aggressively defend pension rights.

Maybe add g Not all Crew Council ideas are great also to add a bit of balance
Apart from that a great post.
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Old 1st Aug 2015, 14:00
  #175 (permalink)  
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You could add that, or you could lobby, inform, request, suggest, answer CC surveys to ensure that your voice is heard.

My experience suggests that the CC generally listen. Management much less so. Additionally and vitally important is the fact that the CC have far more insight than I do. They have to make a judgement and cannot possibly please everybody.

I also acknowledge that they are all volunteers and it can be a thankless task.

So, for me, item "g" is not required.
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Old 1st Aug 2015, 15:23
  #176 (permalink)  
 
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Many thanks for the info. Sounds like there is a bit more variety than the LCC offer so will give it a good think.


Cheers
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Old 1st Aug 2015, 16:39
  #177 (permalink)  
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There is no perfect job, so don't waste your time looking for it. Every opportunity will involve a compromise. Only you can decide what suits you.

Best of luck.
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Old 1st Aug 2015, 20:08
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Im a recent newbie to Thomson from a 737 operator based in porta-cabins in the UK and have to say am so glad I made the move. Thomson is in a different league to my previous job. Yeah the PPY50 for max 5 yrs (which just to clarify is 83% of full time pay) is a bit crap along with the 7k training cost deducted in the first 12 months as instalments, but to be honest I'm taking home about the same as I did working previously full time, so will be getting alot more once the 7k is paid off and movement onto full time kicks in. I hear FO's on the 78 are taking home just shy of 5k a month. Not surprising really when your away for a few days at a time on £4 ish per hour and£10 per hour sector pay. Also in such little time lots of us have been able to move onto the 75767 this year.

If you love being away on a beach 3 to 4 times a month then bid for the 78. It might take you about 3ish years to get it on seniority but with lots of retirements coming up and more 78's turning up things are starting to move quickly. If you would rather be home nearly every night and have the pick of lots of bases up and down the country then stay on the 73. Theres lots of overtime every month and it's yours if you want it. Recently got paid 2 day off payments £946 for a flight because it went over midnight. Lots of guys getting an extra 1500 to 2000k extra a month gross in summer doing a bit of overtime. On the 7576 you'll fly about 600-700 hours a year. A bit more on the 73. Not sure about the 78. You get private medical insurance for you and your family, (family with a slight taxation) LOL, death in service, cheap flights and holidays for employee and family. Pension still up in the air but hopefully if a bit doubtful 15% from the company and 3.5% own contribution as per previous years. Rosters have extra BALPA rules built in over and above legal CAA minimum.

Very friendly guys to fly with even the oldies due to retire on £2million pension pots from the Britannia days. 2 sector days with an hour's turnaround. Crew food is fairly average. In a nut shell if you've got +30 years left and favour an airline with more variety rather than the rush for an overnight command then I would say an absolute no brainer, especially if you don't want burn-out doing max hours per year, 4 sectors a day, 5 earlies in a row.

Negatives:
-PPY50 initially & 7k training cost
-Pension most likely to be reduced
-737NG, not the nicest of places to spend a long day out
-Having to wear a hat
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Old 2nd Aug 2015, 11:25
  #179 (permalink)  
 
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The £7k touted .... is that to cover the SOP sim's and the LPC/OPC plus x sectors of line training?

Or is it associated with a change of type?

Are there any plans to have the 787's based anywhere other than LGW and MAN?
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Old 2nd Aug 2015, 13:16
  #180 (permalink)  
 
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The 7k is to pay for an OCC essentially, so you would need to be type rated and recent on the 73. If your not TR'd then the training cost is more like 21K.

No plans at the moment to base the 78 elsewhere......this week anyway
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