Ryanair jumpseating
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Ryanair jumpseating
Hi guys,
Does anyone have further info on the new EASA regs that are being imposed on FR re jumpseating pilots. That they have to have a ticket and a limited jumpseating destinations available to them?
Does anyone have further info on the new EASA regs that are being imposed on FR re jumpseating pilots. That they have to have a ticket and a limited jumpseating destinations available to them?
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So you guys are telling me you sleep 12 hrs before your duty...please...shut... Of course you guys are leaving at home and flying at home..apply for something in china and leave your family in europe...then give me some feedback! This apply as well if you work out of canaries and your family is in greece...
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I was based in Spain for a while with FR and the major problem I saw with the jumpseating is it was not monitored for rest by the company or Ryanair (to the best of my knowledge)
Guys were jumpseating in on up to 3 flights due no directs for some then having at best 4 hours sleep then heading in to do a 2 or 4 sector day.
Then after 5 days flying earlys they would wait around or rush around to get the afternoon flight('s) home again. And do it all again the next week with the reverse onto late's.
This would lead to some very very tired looking guys in the bar/restaurant on an evening and not the sort of guy I would want sat at the pointy end when I was going home.
Of course this is just pure guess work and speculation and not to be taken as fact for obvious reasons.
Guys were jumpseating in on up to 3 flights due no directs for some then having at best 4 hours sleep then heading in to do a 2 or 4 sector day.
Then after 5 days flying earlys they would wait around or rush around to get the afternoon flight('s) home again. And do it all again the next week with the reverse onto late's.
This would lead to some very very tired looking guys in the bar/restaurant on an evening and not the sort of guy I would want sat at the pointy end when I was going home.
Of course this is just pure guess work and speculation and not to be taken as fact for obvious reasons.
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Industry wide problem i'm afraid, few are lucky enough to work where they live, so for many its a commute. 17 hours and 3 flights to get home is common place for a good number.
I have heard both sides of the argument, whats the difference between someone driving 2 - 3 hours to work or sat for 2 - 3 - 5+ hours in an aircraft en route to work? personally i take the the view if your sat in the flight deck jump seat before duty because there are no other seats available then its border line duty, there is no way you can sleep or rest on a cockpit jump seat and you are immersed in aviation related noises and you can not help but monitor
I do take issues with airlines that require/allow crew to use crew channels for getting airside for positioning rather than via normal gates, its an abuse, crew/staff channels are just that and should only be used by staff on duty requiring to go airside, not for off duty staff self positioning home.
I know why it happens and I know why people do it, but its still an abuse to be airside when you have no ticket and you are not on duty, its the airline(s) that are at fault, apart from anything else you clog the C channel for people who are on duty often with little or no time to get to the aircraft or place of work.
Ditto if your positioning in uniform off duty for the purpose of using crew/staff channels
I have heard both sides of the argument, whats the difference between someone driving 2 - 3 hours to work or sat for 2 - 3 - 5+ hours in an aircraft en route to work? personally i take the the view if your sat in the flight deck jump seat before duty because there are no other seats available then its border line duty, there is no way you can sleep or rest on a cockpit jump seat and you are immersed in aviation related noises and you can not help but monitor
I do take issues with airlines that require/allow crew to use crew channels for getting airside for positioning rather than via normal gates, its an abuse, crew/staff channels are just that and should only be used by staff on duty requiring to go airside, not for off duty staff self positioning home.
I know why it happens and I know why people do it, but its still an abuse to be airside when you have no ticket and you are not on duty, its the airline(s) that are at fault, apart from anything else you clog the C channel for people who are on duty often with little or no time to get to the aircraft or place of work.
Ditto if your positioning in uniform off duty for the purpose of using crew/staff channels
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If jump seating in the day before a duty, even if technically the required minimum rest is not achieved, is such an offense perhaps we should ban pilots having kids as well, or having a personal life at all. For many people a late jump seat flight is the difference between an acceptable life style and total disaster.
I think we have to balance the positives against the negatives here. A day taken away from me at home would be a far bigger stressor than not receiving text book min rest.
I do accept the "abuse of system" thing but that we're clogging the staff channel is a dumb argument. The only crew security that I've been to that's really been clogged is in UK. And we all know why.., check ID for 2 min, remove shoes, computers, iPads, liquids and soon underwear! The fraction of jumpseaters going through is minimal in comparison to other staff. My only experience with clogged security channels is UK procedures and lack of resources.
From my friends in the US I hear no problems, commuting on any airline, even freighters. How come they get it so right? Oh yeah.. over there we help fellow colleagues not shaft them !!!
I think we have to balance the positives against the negatives here. A day taken away from me at home would be a far bigger stressor than not receiving text book min rest.
I know why it happens and I know why people do it, but its still an abuse to be airside when you have no ticket and you are not on duty, its the airline(s) that are at fault, apart from anything else you clog the C channel for people who are on duty often with little or no time to get to the aircraft or place of work.
From my friends in the US I hear no problems, commuting on any airline, even freighters. How come they get it so right? Oh yeah.. over there we help fellow colleagues not shaft them !!!
Last edited by 172_driver; 6th Aug 2014 at 17:16.
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For Ryanair there would not need to be so many pilots jump seating if they were placed with more tact. When will they realise the benefit of placing their pilots as close to home as possible, less fatigue being the major reason hence less chance of accidents etc. It would benefit them as much as the pilots themselves. All just my own opinion of coarse.
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Why would Ryanair do that ? Treating the workforce with any sort of respect is in direct conflict with the company policy of undermining individual self confidence.
This is one of the management tools used to control the workforce.
BA used this tactic in engineering for years
This is one of the management tools used to control the workforce.
BA used this tactic in engineering for years
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Hey A and C. I do understand that is their sole reason, because it just doesn't make sense to do it for any other reason. However the one thing that every airline, even the fore mentioned care about is safety. But I totally agree with what you say. I thought though there was a small shift in this and some pilots were finally getting placed in bases they have requested for years as so many adequate pilots were being lost to other airlines. All my humble opinion.
Last edited by speed_alive_rotate; 7th Aug 2014 at 09:38.
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There is nothing in EASA regs to prevent the use of jump seats, intact, off duty staff, travelling on ID tickets often have to jump seat to get on the flight. Actually, off duty staff are not allowed to use crew channels even if in uniform as they should pass normal security controls, larging it up in a uniform to jump the queue when you are intact a normal pax is a disciplinary offence at most airlines at BAA airports it will result in withdrawing of the security pass. I have seen many many crew from Star Alliance groups jump seating before a duty just to allow more time at home with the wife and kids. The industry assumes people are adult and responsible enough to organise their own rest and be " fit to fly".
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speed_alive_rotate Hey A and C. I do understand that is their sole reason, because it just doesn't make sense to do it for any other reason. However the one thing that every airline, even the fore mentioned care about is safety. But I totally agree with what you say. I thought though there was a small shift in this and some pilots were finally getting placed in bases they have requested for years as so many excellent pilots were being lost to other airlines. All my humble opinion.
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There is nothing in EASA regs to prevent the use of jump seats, intact, off duty staff, travelling on ID tickets often have to jump seat to get on the flight. Actually, off duty staff are not allowed to use crew channels even if in uniform as they should pass normal security controls, larging it up in a uniform to jump the queue when you are intact a normal pax is a disciplinary offence at most airlines at BAA airports it will result in withdrawing of the security pass. I have seen many many crew from Star Alliance groups jump seating before a duty just to allow more time at home with the wife and kids. The industry assumes people are adult and responsible enough to organise their own rest and be " fit to fly".
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172 driver
You are clearly so stressed out and fatigued that you didm't even bother to read my post before you fired both barrels!!
We are not talking about the day before duty here or min rest what ever that is? we are talking about people positioning immediately prior to duty.
We are not talking about people in uniform walking to the front of the checking desk line and boarding first.
What we are talking about is people who don't have a ticket of any sort and who are not on duty, putting on a uniform and walking through a crew channel using (actually abusing the terms of the their ID) to pretend to be part of an operating crew to beg a lift home, again i understand the why, but that doesn't make it right or lawful, put simply if you are not on duty (flying/positioning at the behest of your employer) or in possession of a valid boarding card then you should not be airside period, it is a restricted area.
By dodging the rules you are letting your employer/service company off the hook, eventually this will go full circle and further restriction will be placed on all of us.
Adequate rest is the responsibility of the individual but by putting your self at risk you in turn put both your fellow pilot and crew/passengers at risk, so if your home life preclude proper rest, then i respectfully suggest you change either your home life or job...before someone changes it for you.
We are not talking about the day before duty here or min rest what ever that is? we are talking about people positioning immediately prior to duty.
We are not talking about people in uniform walking to the front of the checking desk line and boarding first.
What we are talking about is people who don't have a ticket of any sort and who are not on duty, putting on a uniform and walking through a crew channel using (actually abusing the terms of the their ID) to pretend to be part of an operating crew to beg a lift home, again i understand the why, but that doesn't make it right or lawful, put simply if you are not on duty (flying/positioning at the behest of your employer) or in possession of a valid boarding card then you should not be airside period, it is a restricted area.
By dodging the rules you are letting your employer/service company off the hook, eventually this will go full circle and further restriction will be placed on all of us.
Adequate rest is the responsibility of the individual but by putting your self at risk you in turn put both your fellow pilot and crew/passengers at risk, so if your home life preclude proper rest, then i respectfully suggest you change either your home life or job...before someone changes it for you.
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Ryanair jumpseating
UK:
The DFT allows pilots to use the staff channels 24 h (or 48cant remember) after/before any duty period for the purpose of going home. BALPa actually had an extract ofthis text in on of their glossy magazines. Most security staff don't know, used to carry the DFT text with me.
In most other countries you get invited to jump queues (also at security).
The DFT allows pilots to use the staff channels 24 h (or 48cant remember) after/before any duty period for the purpose of going home. BALPa actually had an extract ofthis text in on of their glossy magazines. Most security staff don't know, used to carry the DFT text with me.
In most other countries you get invited to jump queues (also at security).
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OD
Good look with that at the likes of LHR, STN, LGW. i have turned up with a full crew in uniform with a UK airport ID, but one not issued by the above and have only being allowed airside after production of a GEN DEC
There is no way these days you'll be allowed airside through the C channel by saying it's ok GUV I'm on mi way home
If this is Ryanair we are talking about, what happens at say STN when you've flown in from BUD and you are heading for DUB? are you in uniform? do you go to the FR crew room and then walk out to the aircraft
Good look with that at the likes of LHR, STN, LGW. i have turned up with a full crew in uniform with a UK airport ID, but one not issued by the above and have only being allowed airside after production of a GEN DEC
There is no way these days you'll be allowed airside through the C channel by saying it's ok GUV I'm on mi way home
If this is Ryanair we are talking about, what happens at say STN when you've flown in from BUD and you are heading for DUB? are you in uniform? do you go to the FR crew room and then walk out to the aircraft