A Job that actually means something
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David, with all due respect, you sound like a 6 year old who has become bored of his Christmas present.
You can afford to do some GA in your spare time if you want to do some aeros.
I would advise you to be less obsessed with yourself and take a look around. Of course it's only a job. Everyone has a job and most people's jobs are crap but it pays the bills. We are lucky enough to have a bloody good one.
You can afford to do some GA in your spare time if you want to do some aeros.
I would advise you to be less obsessed with yourself and take a look around. Of course it's only a job. Everyone has a job and most people's jobs are crap but it pays the bills. We are lucky enough to have a bloody good one.
Avoid imitations
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Do your company offer periods of unpaid leave?
My company would offer me one just period of unpaid leave. If I told them I wanted to take one it would start when they (i.e. ME) found a replacement pilot for them and last for eternity.
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A Job that actually means something
Some companies (mine included) offer unpaid leave. Yes its a hit to the paypacket but when my kids were young, its the only way we managed juggling everything as a family. Our daughter was very ill in the first two years so nothing else mattered to be fair.
Sometimes the pace of the job just doesnt leave you time to get head space, especially if you are sharing childcare etc with a partner who also works.
Sometimes the pace of the job just doesnt leave you time to get head space, especially if you are sharing childcare etc with a partner who also works.
you wouldn't be unique David, I went through and am still questioning myself and the industry.
I had many knock backs and eventually got to Hamble where the same circle of highs and lows continued as it did in BEA. I joined the BALPA technical committee but gave that up as I thought that the CAA were the people to improve our standards...talk about naive.
Borrowed the money to get an instructors rating...changed my philosophies (and my line flying) and have spent 15 years teaching various aviation disciplines (mostly at my expense).
I suppose the most rewarding experience was a "trial lesson" in a winch launched glider with a guy who had been blinded as the result of a hospital cock up...looped the glider...he cried and after I helped him out on the ground he gave me a bear hug, lifted me up with tears streaming down his face and thanked me.
The gliding world need instructors and tug pilots...there are a couple of charities which help handicapped people fly (again).
I've always considered myself extremely fortunate and felt it is a "duty" to share my luck with others...class a, microlights, gliders and paragliding..plus I wrote an autobiography but had to cut out the important part - plus ca change c'est la meme chose - because of the libel threat.
I've changed companies - and never flew the same aircraft for longer than 6 years - which helped but still got bored. Just after I got my command (after more than 20 years in the industry) I lost my license...now that is a real kick in the gonads...but there is so many other fulfilling flying opportunities including radio control planes.
I've got too old too teach people in the air because I have started making mistakes but can still help out in other ways.
Have a look at what Guy Westgate does...that will open your eyes..he got me into aerobatics and paragliding...cost me the tow and a fiver towards the glider cost....
good luck
I had many knock backs and eventually got to Hamble where the same circle of highs and lows continued as it did in BEA. I joined the BALPA technical committee but gave that up as I thought that the CAA were the people to improve our standards...talk about naive.
Borrowed the money to get an instructors rating...changed my philosophies (and my line flying) and have spent 15 years teaching various aviation disciplines (mostly at my expense).
I suppose the most rewarding experience was a "trial lesson" in a winch launched glider with a guy who had been blinded as the result of a hospital cock up...looped the glider...he cried and after I helped him out on the ground he gave me a bear hug, lifted me up with tears streaming down his face and thanked me.
The gliding world need instructors and tug pilots...there are a couple of charities which help handicapped people fly (again).
I've always considered myself extremely fortunate and felt it is a "duty" to share my luck with others...class a, microlights, gliders and paragliding..plus I wrote an autobiography but had to cut out the important part - plus ca change c'est la meme chose - because of the libel threat.
I've changed companies - and never flew the same aircraft for longer than 6 years - which helped but still got bored. Just after I got my command (after more than 20 years in the industry) I lost my license...now that is a real kick in the gonads...but there is so many other fulfilling flying opportunities including radio control planes.
I've got too old too teach people in the air because I have started making mistakes but can still help out in other ways.
Have a look at what Guy Westgate does...that will open your eyes..he got me into aerobatics and paragliding...cost me the tow and a fiver towards the glider cost....
good luck
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Thank you everyone for all your responses.
It has been very interesting to read your replies and I appreciate people taking the time to put thoughts down.
In true PPrune tradition, 99% superb replies and two posts making assumptions about the posters motives/personality.
I don't want to get into a tit for tat, and of course you are entitled to your opinion, but it is precisely because I don't feel I am doing something worthwhile that I asked for advice!
I am fortunate to be in this position, but that doesn't change the fact that I feel I should be doing something to help people, or do something more, that was after all, the point of the post, it wasn't about me being selfish, quite the opposite.
I became a pilot because I LOVED flying, I loved it, talked about it all day long with friends, bored the family with it, you know what I mean :-)
I certainly didn't get into it for the money!
You must be pulling my leg
To those who took time to offer solutions and kindly offered for me to pm them, thank you and I will be in touch soon.
God bless PPrune.
It has been very interesting to read your replies and I appreciate people taking the time to put thoughts down.
In true PPrune tradition, 99% superb replies and two posts making assumptions about the posters motives/personality.
I don't want to get into a tit for tat, and of course you are entitled to your opinion, but it is precisely because I don't feel I am doing something worthwhile that I asked for advice!
I am fortunate to be in this position, but that doesn't change the fact that I feel I should be doing something to help people, or do something more, that was after all, the point of the post, it wasn't about me being selfish, quite the opposite.
I became a pilot because I LOVED flying, I loved it, talked about it all day long with friends, bored the family with it, you know what I mean :-)
I certainly didn't get into it for the money!
You must be pulling my leg
To those who took time to offer solutions and kindly offered for me to pm them, thank you and I will be in touch soon.
God bless PPrune.
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I work for one of these companies, flying King Airs. I have been flying King Airs for FAR TOO BLOODY LONG now.
Sure, it's great to do for a couple of years, and the first 2 years I had batting around Europe, doing VFR when I could, earning reasonably decent money, was great. But then I started to want a proper job.
To cut a long story short, I can't get a "proper" job, basically because it's cheaper for EZY and RYR to employ people straight out of flying school than to employ people like me. Being the "wrong side of 30", and the "wrong side of 300 hours", I'm now a training risk. Funny how the goalposts have moved since I finished my training. I now cannot advance in my career, and for me the only option if I'm ever to hit a salary of £100K (which is my intention by the time I'm 40) is to change career.
Trust me, if you want a job that "means something" (like mine), you need to accept everything else that goes with it:
- working for a company where there are no career prospects
- a really lax attitude towards Flight Duty Periods
- no union recognition, meaning that the pay will be sh*t
- no other benefits
So I very much "like" the poster above who recommended taking out a month's salary in cash and staring at it until your desire to have a job like mine goes away.
Sure, it's great to do for a couple of years, and the first 2 years I had batting around Europe, doing VFR when I could, earning reasonably decent money, was great. But then I started to want a proper job.
To cut a long story short, I can't get a "proper" job, basically because it's cheaper for EZY and RYR to employ people straight out of flying school than to employ people like me. Being the "wrong side of 30", and the "wrong side of 300 hours", I'm now a training risk. Funny how the goalposts have moved since I finished my training. I now cannot advance in my career, and for me the only option if I'm ever to hit a salary of £100K (which is my intention by the time I'm 40) is to change career.
Trust me, if you want a job that "means something" (like mine), you need to accept everything else that goes with it:
- working for a company where there are no career prospects
- a really lax attitude towards Flight Duty Periods
- no union recognition, meaning that the pay will be sh*t
- no other benefits
So I very much "like" the poster above who recommended taking out a month's salary in cash and staring at it until your desire to have a job like mine goes away.
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It is a difficult one Dave. I used to get the 'hands on' flying fix by dropping parachutists. However the thing that got to me in the end was the scheduling. It was all fair but I can't sleep during the day and triple night flights were killing me. I was so tired it was making me ill. I was lucky as we have no children. We sold our large house in the UK and moved to a small place in the mountains here in Greece. No water, no electricity, no road, no nothing! It is a very economical way to live but not for everyone. Living most of the year in Botswana is even cheaper but we do have a large estate there to maintain. I used my knowledge of the travel business gained whilst flying and my business qualifications to set up a small tour operators business. I get my flying fix with the bush pilots down south. I am also now on two pensions. The latter needs your attention if you decide to chuck in the towel.
Good luck, whatever you decide
Good luck, whatever you decide
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David
I fly a widebody and whilst I still very much enjoy the travelling aspect of the job and getting out and doing and seeing new things when down route, I find the majority of my time in the seat is pretty mundane. Long periods of time sitting with low workload and simply monitoring in the cruise. It won't get better.
In order to tackle that, I recently got back into light aircraft flying again and it was a massive breath of fresh air. No automation and a endless list of rules and SOPs to worry about. I get the same buzz as I did hiring a light single when I was a PPL.
I lived to work when I was younger but now I work to live. Give yourself something new to focus on outside of flying. Learn a new language or a new skill or do something different which will be stimulating and rewarding. It could even lead to a new business opportunity.
I fly a widebody and whilst I still very much enjoy the travelling aspect of the job and getting out and doing and seeing new things when down route, I find the majority of my time in the seat is pretty mundane. Long periods of time sitting with low workload and simply monitoring in the cruise. It won't get better.
In order to tackle that, I recently got back into light aircraft flying again and it was a massive breath of fresh air. No automation and a endless list of rules and SOPs to worry about. I get the same buzz as I did hiring a light single when I was a PPL.
I lived to work when I was younger but now I work to live. Give yourself something new to focus on outside of flying. Learn a new language or a new skill or do something different which will be stimulating and rewarding. It could even lead to a new business opportunity.
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Coming from STOL turboprop ops to the wide body Airbus fleet myself, I feel some of what you are expressing. I think often of the times whe people were happy to see you because their community would struggle to cope without you flying in mail, medication, produce etc. We were respected and looked after by our clients even if the salary was relatively abysmal.
However.. money doesnt buy happiness but I will settle for being sad in luxury!
For your consideration: The Middle-eastern company I work for now, which we apparently cannot name under pain of death
, is soon supposedly starting a "part time" program for capts who are over 50 and have served over 3 years online.
Its one month on-one month off. You'll only get paid for the month you work but thats no biggy if all your ducks are in a row. That should give you enough time per year to accomplish whatever it is that will give you fulfillment.
Im not eligible for it myself as im too young and too much of an FO.. im sure some of the more savant personalities will have enough to say on the matter if probed..
good luck
However.. money doesnt buy happiness but I will settle for being sad in luxury!
For your consideration: The Middle-eastern company I work for now, which we apparently cannot name under pain of death
, is soon supposedly starting a "part time" program for capts who are over 50 and have served over 3 years online. Its one month on-one month off. You'll only get paid for the month you work but thats no biggy if all your ducks are in a row. That should give you enough time per year to accomplish whatever it is that will give you fulfillment.
Im not eligible for it myself as im too young and too much of an FO.. im sure some of the more savant personalities will have enough to say on the matter if probed..
good luck
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I think before someone think and question himself about this career like david, you should think hard before you even want to start in this industry.
The moment you decide to be a pilot, you will have to expect : -
1) your job is routine and repetitive
2) Your promotion, pay check, your life and roster is being decide by management
3) your annual leave, where you base, what aircraft you fly and many more is being decide by other people and your job is to only take instruction from people forever so long you are in this career ( maybe till 65 )
The above you can see in other middle east and hkg threads, where they fly for the biggest airline and yet cry like a baby asking where is my payrise? inflation ? work overtime and force to fly more hours bla bla bla
Point is, before you get yourself into a position like david, it depend on how smart and how ambitious are you?
Everyone knows that it's good to work smart and not hard.
That is why the airline executive and management is making tons of money.
Sure, if the airline were to be bankrupt, their Swiss bank is already stashed with cash or if there are any accident like MH 370 and air france, insurance pay and compensate. After all, a pilot life is worth a cheap 60 months salary. ( basic pay )
If you are a smart person, you are being driven and served and not the other way round.
Think tim clark of Emirates, richard brandson of virgin or tony of air asia.
If you love to fly, you can always be like john travolta and may others, who buy their own jet and fly anytime they like.
So it depends on whether you want to lead a life taking instructions forever and in some cases spoil your health too and pay back medical in the future.
Trust me, waking up at 3am for a 6 am flight or doing red eyes flight 3 times in a row is not fun and damaging to our health. Not to mention the 30 min turnaround time and the occasional 6 sectors per day. It's like working so hard but making someone else rich.
Everyone is born the same with 2 hands, 2 legs and 2 eyes.
It's the choice you make and the above is the ugly truth.
The moment you decide to be a pilot, you will have to expect : -
1) your job is routine and repetitive
2) Your promotion, pay check, your life and roster is being decide by management
3) your annual leave, where you base, what aircraft you fly and many more is being decide by other people and your job is to only take instruction from people forever so long you are in this career ( maybe till 65 )
The above you can see in other middle east and hkg threads, where they fly for the biggest airline and yet cry like a baby asking where is my payrise? inflation ? work overtime and force to fly more hours bla bla bla
Point is, before you get yourself into a position like david, it depend on how smart and how ambitious are you?
Everyone knows that it's good to work smart and not hard.
That is why the airline executive and management is making tons of money.
Sure, if the airline were to be bankrupt, their Swiss bank is already stashed with cash or if there are any accident like MH 370 and air france, insurance pay and compensate. After all, a pilot life is worth a cheap 60 months salary. ( basic pay )
If you are a smart person, you are being driven and served and not the other way round.
Think tim clark of Emirates, richard brandson of virgin or tony of air asia.
If you love to fly, you can always be like john travolta and may others, who buy their own jet and fly anytime they like.
So it depends on whether you want to lead a life taking instructions forever and in some cases spoil your health too and pay back medical in the future.
Trust me, waking up at 3am for a 6 am flight or doing red eyes flight 3 times in a row is not fun and damaging to our health. Not to mention the 30 min turnaround time and the occasional 6 sectors per day. It's like working so hard but making someone else rich.
Everyone is born the same with 2 hands, 2 legs and 2 eyes.
It's the choice you make and the above is the ugly truth.
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Having had a forced break from flying for 9 years (medical) made me really appreciate being a professional pilot. I did not know how good it was until it was taken away. That's my two cents worth.
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Lingdee, spot on mate !
Think 100% the same. That's why I left the airline for a business...but the business side is hard work too, at least at first. But I know why I get up in the monrning. I may come to fly again but just because I have the choice and I want to, not because i have to...
The question is : do I want to be a real leader or a slave (or employee if you prefer the term).
Many think that being captain is being a leader, but it is simply a magical powder thrown to eyes by the airlines Human ressources to make you feel an important person and satisfied one. But it's false. Nowaydays even as a captain, you're not leader at all, but only a SOP robot.
If things go wrongs, sure you will start to use brain at 200%, but in 0.001% case. and if things go really wrong, anyway, you'll die...so...
Do not come in this industry, with a leadership mentality, or you will get bored really fast.
It's better to come in this industry with a military mentality meaning, you like receiving orders and execute them as a little soldier.
But for those who are already in this industry, however don't leave without planning a real way out. Open a business while you fly, and get out once your business is running enough to live. Personnally I left a bit too early so it was hard work to make my business run.
Think 100% the same. That's why I left the airline for a business...but the business side is hard work too, at least at first. But I know why I get up in the monrning. I may come to fly again but just because I have the choice and I want to, not because i have to...
The question is : do I want to be a real leader or a slave (or employee if you prefer the term).
Many think that being captain is being a leader, but it is simply a magical powder thrown to eyes by the airlines Human ressources to make you feel an important person and satisfied one. But it's false. Nowaydays even as a captain, you're not leader at all, but only a SOP robot.
If things go wrongs, sure you will start to use brain at 200%, but in 0.001% case. and if things go really wrong, anyway, you'll die...so...
Do not come in this industry, with a leadership mentality, or you will get bored really fast.
It's better to come in this industry with a military mentality meaning, you like receiving orders and execute them as a little soldier.
But for those who are already in this industry, however don't leave without planning a real way out. Open a business while you fly, and get out once your business is running enough to live. Personnally I left a bit too early so it was hard work to make my business run.
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A simple case of burnout maybe?
Take two months off,go have some fun as far as possible from aircraft and
do not read/talk about aviation.
When you get back to work,if you are still not enjoying then maybe a more permanent change may be necessary.
Good luck.
Take two months off,go have some fun as far as possible from aircraft and
do not read/talk about aviation.
When you get back to work,if you are still not enjoying then maybe a more permanent change may be necessary.
Good luck.
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I was in exactly the same position as the OP at the beginning of this year. I've been flying turboprops and then an RJ since 2008. I've been an FO for all of that time. I've interviewed twice for one of my dream jobs over the last couple of years and have fallen at the last hurdle both times. I was feeling rather sorry for myself, very lackluster and stale, and just felt that I wasn't making a difference in the world.
In April I decided a change was in order and I took a months leave unpaid. After three weeks I found I was really missing flying. I went back in mid May and put a fleet change request in. I've just finished my conversion course for my new type and have fallen in love with flying all over again. If you have the option to switch fleets, I'd say go for it!
But more than anything else I would say that my month off gave me time to really reflect on what is important to me. Flying is all I had ever wanted to do, and I was distraught that I was bored. Then I realised, I'd built it up so much that it was consuming my life. Family are the centre of my world now, flying is just my job, an extremely enjoyable job, but no longer something I pin all my hopes and desires on. I'm very content now, all that was really required was a change in perspective.
I've recently volunteered to give talks at schools and universities and already I am finding it very rewarding to encourage a new generation of pilots.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do. I think most airline pilots reach this point at some time in their careers.
In April I decided a change was in order and I took a months leave unpaid. After three weeks I found I was really missing flying. I went back in mid May and put a fleet change request in. I've just finished my conversion course for my new type and have fallen in love with flying all over again. If you have the option to switch fleets, I'd say go for it!
But more than anything else I would say that my month off gave me time to really reflect on what is important to me. Flying is all I had ever wanted to do, and I was distraught that I was bored. Then I realised, I'd built it up so much that it was consuming my life. Family are the centre of my world now, flying is just my job, an extremely enjoyable job, but no longer something I pin all my hopes and desires on. I'm very content now, all that was really required was a change in perspective.
I've recently volunteered to give talks at schools and universities and already I am finding it very rewarding to encourage a new generation of pilots.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do. I think most airline pilots reach this point at some time in their careers.
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Originally Posted by lingdee
The moment you decide to be a pilot, you will have to expect : -
1) your job is routine and repetitive
2) Your promotion, pay check, your life and roster is being decide by management
3) your annual leave, where you base, what aircraft you fly and many more is being decide by other people and your job is to only take instruction from people forever so long you are in this career ( maybe till 65 )
1) your job is routine and repetitive
2) Your promotion, pay check, your life and roster is being decide by management
3) your annual leave, where you base, what aircraft you fly and many more is being decide by other people and your job is to only take instruction from people forever so long you are in this career ( maybe till 65 )
Unless you own and operate your own company, the moment you decide to be a (fill-in-the-blank – school teacher, doctor, lawyer, sales agent, astronaut, ditch digger, etc.), you will have to expect:
1) Your job will be routine and repetitive (unless you have a unique ability to recognize the possibility of the vast amount of potentials)-
2) Your promotion, pay check, your life, and roster will be decided by management (unless of course you bring a new, exciting, more simple structure, a better approach, or some other job-improvement idea to the table)-
3) Your annual leave, to some degree at least, where you live, what equipment you will use and many more issues will be decided by other people, and your job will be to take instruction from people forever so long you are a (fill-in-with-same-job-function) (probably ‘till you retire) -(unless, of course, and again, you are able to recognize the potentials, and for some, or all of those potentials, are able to provide a newer, better, easier, more effective, less costly method to accomplish the same job functions).
There is no job, no profession, no "calling," that is insulated from the above-mentioned factors. Some people believe they must keep their "nose to the grind stone" and "their shoulder to the wheel," and must not recognize what is happening, and where or how or if ... they may have ideas that are worth exploring, any one of which might put the whole function into a new category of operation. Imagination is available to all who recognize that fact ... and imagination, simply by its definition, cannot be held within boundaries defined by "other" persons.
Last edited by AirRabbit; 29th Jun 2014 at 16:47.
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This Too Shall Pass...
Give it a little time. Call it a mid-life crises if you wish, and ride it out for a while. If you still feel this way in a year, then perhaps you should be flying commercially and might consider a different line of work. Like most professions, driving big airplanes is often routine and often boring, with moments of both terror and great pleasure. If someone promised you life of constant glitz, glamor, bling, the ideal salary and perfect Quality of Life, I think you got lied to - or chose to park your common sense. Slightly more mature thinking may help you.
