PPRuNe Forums


Terms and Endearment The forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 24th Apr 2014, 09:18   #1 (permalink)
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Uk
Posts: 142
BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Any word or rumour of when DEP may reopen? Posted on ppjn a shortage of people on the Airbus fleet!
Harry palmer is offline  
Old 24th Apr 2014, 10:18   #2 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: On the side of the pitch!
Age: 40
Posts: 482
Shortage due to people placed disproportionately on new and running down fleets, surpluses on some fleets, shortages on others, it's being addressed internally first and with FPP cadets. After this is anybody's guess. No rumours of DEP recruitment yet.
SinBin is online now  
Old 24th Apr 2014, 12:58   #3 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Who knows!
Posts: 39
I wouldn't imagine any before 2015 at earliest.
Nelson15 is offline  
Old 24th Apr 2014, 13:23   #4 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 2,047
The way things are headed you could look here:
"BA" SH T&Cs
NigelOnDraft is offline  
Old 24th Apr 2014, 13:26   #5 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Planet Earth (sometimes)
Posts: 3,765
Quote:
Shortage due to people placed disproportionately on new and running down fleets,
Agreed

The management will tell you that overall the company is not short of pilots, so there's not a cat in h**** chance of Head Office sanctioning DEP recruitment any time soon.

NOD

That was very naughty ...but perhaps nearer the truth than some would like to think

Last edited by wiggy; 24th Apr 2014 at 14:17.
wiggy is online now  
Old 5th May 2014, 10:24   #6 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: England
Posts: 18
BA DEP's

According to a couple of sources BA will be opening up DEP again for A320, 500hrs on type to start in Jan 2015.... Keep your eyes peeled on the recruitment website! Info from in the CRC yesterday confirmed by LC head of recruitment.

This is a fact! Please don't start the interrogation of how do you know BASHLH... It's true 2 of my mates heard it yesterday from the horses mouth & they wouldn't lie! Apparently it's not a secret so I'm happy to post here. We are very short at the mo on the Airbus, thank goodness is all I can say! This is great news for everyone, either in BA or out!
BASHLH is offline  
Old 6th May 2014, 18:23   #7 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Planet Earth (sometimes)
Posts: 3,765
Problem is that as far as the company is concerned overall BA is not short of pilots and is planning to move bodies from other "in surplus" fleets onto the bus to cover the shortfall. This is currently causing a certain amount of heated debate in another place and suggests to me that despite our wishes the company is not about to rush out and hire DEPs.

Current Airbus manning issues aside there's a lot going on at the moment that could have an impact on manning next year, e.g. Possible changes to Bid line (our scheduling agreement) and there's still much work to be done on the impact of the EASA FTLs so I'm not sure anyone in BA management is really in a position at the moment to predict if/when they are going to allowed to recruit. The business case has to be approved by IAG and there's no sign of that happening at the moment. What anybody heard at a management briefing session at, say, a ground training day might be wishful thinking by a BA manager.......

All that said there's obviously no harm in being prepared and it would be nice to see BA back in the market for DEPs so fingers crossed.
wiggy is online now  
Old 6th May 2014, 23:28   #8 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: England
Posts: 18
Wiggy, I take your comments well & don't disagree with anything you have said... Except with the CAP levels on all fleets the way they are, it doesn't take much working out to see as a company we are short! As an average across all fleets CAP is 2.5 hrs over (yes that's in the BLR's) however it's unsustainable! The company line 'Bidline is not fit for purpose' rubbish is all to do with the current pay & BLR negotiations IMVHO. I'm sure BLR's need the 21st century tweak but at the same time Bidline works great with another 50 on each status!

People reading my previous post... BA will begin interviewing in July for DEP's to start around Jan 15. A320 500 hrs on type... FACT!

I will publicly apologise if this turns out not to be true but I wouldn't have put it here in the first place if I wasn't 100% confident that this is the case! I've just got back off a trip today & my skipper said they had been talking in passing to LC on Sunday and was told to expect to be contacted ref interviews as they are on the interview team. As I've said it's going to be common knowledge soon enough anyway so I'm happy to post here as my friend said LC said it wasn't a secret!

If people don't want to take my post seriously & want a career in BA then that's no sweat off my nose... I'm genuinely trying to give my fellow colleagues in other airlines a heads up if they want to be in BA. I've told all my mates about it if they fancied giving it a crack. The last campaign in Nov 2010 was I believe closed for applications within 4/5 days as so many applied it crashed the system. At least if your looking for the application it may be just the luck you need to get in quick. Remember BA isn't for everyone & it's not the be all & end all! However I enjoy the security & hopefully the long term career prospects that BA offers.

I hope this helps, & good luck to all when it comes around!
BASHLH is offline  
Old 7th May 2014, 08:17   #9 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cloud Cookoo Land
Posts: 1,191
Quote:
All that said there's obviously no harm in being prepared and it would be nice to see BA back in the market for DEPs so fingers crossed.
Its admirable that you are positive about the future hiring of DEPs, however I hope to God that, if it is the case, then BA get it right. It sounds like the same old uncertainty regarding DEPs exists. One department fighting their corner and another fighting against. What I'm sure LC will want to prevent is another undesirable hold pool situation. The last two recruitment drives were quite unlucky for a number of candidates who made it through selection. I'll add myself to that number. Although I'm not Bus rated and don't see myself being invited to reapply because of that fact, I do sincerely hope that any further DEP campaign is a complete success. From my experience, the guys within pilot recruitment are a good bunch and will want to ensure that this is the case.
Callsign Kilo is offline  
Old 7th May 2014, 09:34   #10 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Planet Earth (sometimes)
Posts: 3,765
Quote:
I will publicly apologise if this turns out not to be true
Don't worry about it, there's obviously something going around because I see someone (not management) has made a claim on the company forum that he/she has heard interviewing will start next month.

I know our union Posting and Promotion guys are generally pretty well informed and they are adamant that IAG will not sanction BA starting recruiting on to any fleet until every fleet is running at it's correct manning level. Maybe on the quiet the company thinks even when it's finished playing musical chairs at the end of the year it will still be short on the Airbus and there is a business case for starting an interview process this summer.

As I said, fingers crossed.

Last edited by wiggy; 7th May 2014 at 10:16.
wiggy is online now  
Old 7th May 2014, 13:25   #11 (permalink)
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Uk
Posts: 142
Thumbs up BA DEP

Well said EMB145-LR.
Harry palmer is offline  
Old 7th May 2014, 21:46   #12 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 35
Posts: 244
A friend of mine has been force drafted or attempted force draft 5 times since the start of April.

In my view if your interested keep your eyes peeled but not sure LC or anyone else can tell you 100% until the button is pushed. It's all positive signs.

Can we send anyone who provides false information to west base car parking as a punishment
bex88 is offline  
Old 9th May 2014, 15:27   #13 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Planet Earth (sometimes)
Posts: 3,765
Today's very hot rumour is interviews in July for those already A320 rated. Sorry if that's not good news for some....
wiggy is online now  
Old 9th May 2014, 15:44   #14 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Planet Moo Moo
Posts: 1,217
[rumour] DEP interviews in July for start dates potentially in Jan 2015. [/rumour]

I'm sure everyone is aware that the troll to gain airbus rated pilots is the obvious first step as it reduces BA's training risk.

If they either don't get enough or not enough of a good enough quality then they will undoubtedly cast the net wider.
Wirbelsturm is offline  
Old 9th May 2014, 17:01   #15 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: England
Posts: 18
It's on our BALPA Forum page now. The interviewers have been notified... July interviews for JAN 15 start dates, 320 500hrs on type!

Glad I got this correct to begin with, but then again I knew it was true haha! Good luck to everyone applying over the next few months!
BASHLH is offline  
Old 9th May 2014, 17:49   #16 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: LGW Sarf
Posts: 159
I'm really interested to know how many easyJet pilots would consider leaving to join BA? Strange question you might ask.... But the older easy contracts are pretty decent, and the newer BA contract less so, 34 point pay scale etc.

Would be interested to know, contract/age/time at easy/reason to join BA.

Just for fun

Good luck!

Last edited by 737 Jockey; 9th May 2014 at 18:05.
737 Jockey is offline  
Old 9th May 2014, 19:30   #17 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 202
I'm with 737_Jockey,

The majority of EZY FO's are now permanently employed and reasonably happy on good salaries with a prospect of (industry wise) a quick command.

Saying that those I know are pretty much all in regional bases, why move to London? Different story entirely for LGW based guys....

Oh and to answer 737_Jockey's query: UK FO/ 29 / 4 years at EZY / not a chance I'm moving company now (asked me a year or so ago things would have been different)
Dct_Mopas is offline  
Old 9th May 2014, 19:51   #18 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: A stones throw away...
Posts: 322
Taken (sic) from the wannabes forum




I just did the Maths on the Finance, with some assumptions about time to command (ie 9 years at easyJet and 18 years at BA). These are based on Oxford's PARC Finances and exclude any tax implication of bond repayments, bonuses and differences in Interest Rates etc.

To summarise:
* There isn't much difference between BA and easyJet in the first 8 years.
* The big difference hits when you get your command at easyJet.
* In the 10 years where you are a Captain at easyJet vs SFO at BA, you accumulate 420k more in pay.
* After 30 years (which is when I would want to retire) the deficit is reduced to 200k.

For me, 1st Class Travel and Long Haul isn't such a big issue. I like my own bed and my own time zone. Likewise seniority is a big negative for me, I'd rather have weekends off when hopefully the kids are growing up than when I'm nearing retirement. Also I think the below highlights that your taking a 400k bet that BA is still around, needs Captains and the pay delta still exists in 10 years time. My preference is that I would rather have the cash in my pocket. The contract is a negative point, but one that I'm comfortable with. The regional point is a positive for me, not just within the UK but across Europe.

I also get your point about wanting to fly for BA. I agree that our generation has been brought up in an environment that people aspire to fly British Airways. Who knows if that will be the case in years to come?

So I think the easyJet MPL and the Future Pilot Program are both great initiatives. Your choice on which one is your preference does probably boil down to your Career aspirations of Long Haul vs Short Haul.

YEAR BA easyJet Deficit
1 45,425 38,750 6,675
2 50,704 38,000 19,379
3 55,982 57,006 18,355
4 63,372 70,396 11,331
5 69,707 70,396 10,642
6 72,874 70,396 13,119
7 75,513 70,396 18,236
8 65,842 70,396 13,682
9 68,171 121,005 -39,152
10 70,500 121,005 -89,656
11 72,830 121,005 -137,832
12 75,159 121,005 -183,678
13 77,488 121,005 -227,195
14 79,817 125,696 -273,074
15 82,146 125,696 -316,624
16 84,475 125,696 -357,845
17 86,805 125,696 -396,737
18 89,134 125,696 -433,299
19 131,035 125,696 -427,961
20 133,590 125,696 -420,067
21 136,146 125,696 -409,617
22 138,701 125,696 -396,612
23 141,256 125,696 -381,052
24 143,812 125,696 -362,936
25 146,367 125,696 -342,265
26 148,923 125,696 -319,039
27 151,478 125,696 -293,256
28 154,034 125,696 -264,919
29 156,589 125,696 -234,026
30 159,145 125,696 -200,578


Notes:
Payscales are based on pilotjobsnetworks and Future Pilot Program Presentation.
BA Drops at year 8 after the bond is repaid
For easyJet I assume 600 sectors per year (ie 150 working days, 4 sectors per day)
I include the current loyalty bonuses for easyJet ie 5, 10, 15 salary.
For BA, I assume a linear progression from paypoint 1 to paypoint 34.





A friend who is a SH FO LHR who has been with BA for 5 years thinks it will be 10-12 years from now till he will get his SH command!


Yikes
THRILLSEEKER is online now  
Old 9th May 2014, 21:48   #19 (permalink)
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Uk
Posts: 142
Not forgetting guys at Monarch, Thomas Cook and people out in the Middle East that may want to return home. I very much hope there is a need for non rated experienced people soon too.
Harry palmer is offline  
Old 9th May 2014, 22:15   #20 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 2,047
Plastic78

Not trying to discourage you - you've thought it through and your reasons make sense if all stays "as is".

I would just check the master plan has included the possibility of:
  1. EASA FTLs making "commuting" even in LH impractical
  2. BA, maybe via a FRMS, making commuting "difficult" (maybe due 1 above)
  3. BA SH being killed off / outsourced / made intolerable
  4. BA LGW ditto
  5. CRA moving on from 65
You will join BA as ~#4000, with little planned recruitment after you - this DEP recruitment is a "panic" measure to a current crisis. Not only is there a very long queue of SH (S)FOs awaiting LH ahead of you, if either 3 or 4 become fact (some would say they will imminently, others will say they are already fact), then SH Capts will also join the queue for LH RHS.

It is no secret that various industrial negotiations are on-going, largely but not entirely targeted at SH. Apply by all means, but keep your ears and eyes very wide open, and delay as far as possible burning your current situation.
NigelOnDraft is offline  
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 15:12.


1996-2012 The Professional Pilots Rumour Network

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1