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Old 13th May 2014, 08:27   #61 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
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DEPs will join on PP34.
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Old 13th May 2014, 08:57   #62 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: England
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DEP Salary

The info on PPJN isn't correct! The 2013 pay figs are...

Starting DEP salary is Year 1 - 51819
Year 2 Short Haul - 53835 therefore increment of 2016 per year.
Year 2 Long Haul - 54602 therefore increment of 2783 per year.

Fixed 'Flying Pay Allowance' Short Haul (FPA every month) 581 per month.

Duty pay per hour (swipe in to swipe out) Circa 3.40 an hour.

Unite through BALPA etc have recently turned down a 2.7% pay rise so expect starting salary DEP to be Circa 53300 at least!

For April I did 18 days work (as we are short), 7 nights away (my choice), pay point 4 short haul (57867) & took home 4500.

That's PP24... I don't have the PP34 but the starting salary will be the same, just the increments will be slightly less.... Hope this helps!
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Old 13th May 2014, 09:08   #63 (permalink)
 
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DEPs will, I hope, join on PP1 of a 34 point pay scale.......
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Old 13th May 2014, 13:10   #64 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
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34pp year two = approx 4k a month. A busy month is about 4.5 after tax. That assumes you are paying in 9% of your salary to pension, loss of licence and medical insurance at about 70 a month.

There are loads of other benefits which I personally don't use such as staff travel. But importantly costa coffee in the CRC is 1.23

Oh and for June. 17 days on in three blocks of work. Mainly trips but that my choice and believe me I am about as far to the bottom as it gets. Not always this good but somehow I got a good line for June.

If you want to join us I am sure everyone will make you very welcome. Especially as part of the elite SAS crews
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Old 13th May 2014, 13:20   #65 (permalink)
 
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I'm hearing there will be 40-50 DEP's recruited in July/August for a Jan 2015 start and a further 80 DEP's recruited in 2015.

Time to get those CV's up to date...
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Old 13th May 2014, 14:43   #66 (permalink)
 
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Red face still a rumour!

where is the job posted????
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Old 13th May 2014, 14:46   #67 (permalink)
 
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Bex88 you mean you already know what you're going to be doing in June and can plan a life accordingly?!! Jealous!! Here where I am we are left guessing until about five days before... Yet another reason I want to join BA.
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Old 13th May 2014, 14:52   #68 (permalink)
 
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Patience is a virtue...
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Old 13th May 2014, 20:50   #69 (permalink)
 
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Plastic 787. Yes I know what line of work I have been awarded for June. Because I achieved CAP (required credit hours) at the first stage of bidding I don't have to bid at stage two. To be completely true because we are so short CAP has been raised so high that providing you get 2hrs over the normal level you can't be docked pay or have your hours taken off you (it's all very complex and covers about 300 pages ) If you need to bid at stage two you will know in a weeks time.
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Old 13th May 2014, 22:18   #70 (permalink)
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Is that going to be 40/50 type rated for the first openings and the requirement for 80 next year opened for Non Rated experienced people?
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Old 13th May 2014, 23:40   #71 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: United Kingdom
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Quote:
Command seniority generally appears as follows:

LGW SH 2200
LHR SH 1900 (no significant vacancies currently)
LHR LH 1100
Hard to answer I know, but what's the attrition rate like? These numbers are a bit meaningless without it.

It never fails to amaze me how many people on here seem to argue about money at BA.
Quote:
Starting DEP salary is Year 1 - 51819
That puts you in the top 10% of all UK taxpayers, and that's year 1. Regardless of what you can earn elsewhere, it is a more than fair salary that you can live well on. The only reason I would join/stay at EZY or others over BA would be for lifestyle, and while I'm young the only advantage EZY seems to have is regional bases. If I was older/married, I guess being home every night and a quicker command could swing it.

Last edited by ManUtd1999; 14th May 2014 at 03:07.
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Old 14th May 2014, 06:24   #72 (permalink)
 
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Based on rumour inside BA, it appeared the first 50 or so would be type rated to go the the Airbus SH fleet. Don't know about the remaining numbers for next year, however, based on the queue of eligible people wishing to escape to LH, I would suspect they are destined for SH too. Of course I could be completely wrong.
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Old 14th May 2014, 07:11   #73 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
The only reason I would join/stay at EZY or others over BA would be for lifestyle, and while I'm young the only advantage EZY seems to have is regional bases.
Interestingly I bumped into an old colleague of mine who is LHS for Easy a few weeks back. He was just returning from a block of '4 sector earlies' and was saying how tired he felt. I was just off on a 5 day trip, one day sector out, 2 days in resort on the beach, 1 night sector back.

Direct monetary comparison is okay but there also needs to be a workload/style balance equated to it as well. LHR short haul ops do night stop and some of the destinations are fantastic, even for a short stop. Money is broadly comparable but it hasn't stopped the migration of Easy pilots into BA short haul with the idea of moving to Long Haul which, in my opinion, is a completely different lifestyle choice.

At the moment the exodus of senior co-pilots from the Airbus to Long Haul is large leading to the requirement for DEP on the bus. Personally I cannot foresee the necessity to recruit DEP onto LH for quite some time. Aspirational bids from SH to LH for the RHS need to be fulfilled before DEP onto LH can be approved unless the board decides that either money issues or training issues become more prevalent.

All IMHO of course.
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Old 14th May 2014, 07:53   #74 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
That puts you in the top 10% of all UK taxpayers, and that's year 1. Regardless of what you can earn elsewhere, it is a more than fair salary that you can live well on.
We also invested more financially and study wise than the bottom 98% of the population, have a far greater responsibility than the bottom 99% of the population and work disgustingly anti social hours in an unhealthy environment that gives me a dry nose, itchy tired eyes, the possibility of cataracts, a sore lower back and possible NIHL. Every time I wake up at 0300 in the morning my eyes, my heart and brain can't quite believe it. Every time I go to bed at 0100 in the morning my body clock can't quite adjust to the change. This is a serious job that requires a proper salary. It's a fair starting salary but don't expect experienced people to be grateful at it's value.
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Old 14th May 2014, 12:56   #75 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Its a really interesting debate on here, I'm going through it too albeit from a difference stance.

I applied to the Easyjet MPL last year and got resoundingly rejected. I did bounce back to be selected to join the BA Future Pilot Program. Some of the above has made me consider (depending on my allocated start date) whether I should try again at easyJet.

For me the pros (quite obvious!) and the cons (less so in some cases are) :

Pros:

Stability - BA isn't going to double its fleet over the next 10 years, but you can also bet it wont halve it! The compulsory redundancies at BA speaks very loudly.

Fleet- I'm not sure I want to do long haul permanently. For me the very best option would be Gatwick Short Haul, with the NYC A318 thrown in occasionaly. Best of both, a bit like Thomas cook. You have the choices at BA.

Training - The type rating is included in the FPP.

Prestige - I'm sure we won't admit it, but sublminaly it matters. Saying your a BA pilot/captain at pub, nightclub, dinner party or golf club is certainly a conversation starter!

Pay - The pay is good and more importantly predictable

Permanent - Your permanent from day 1, which isn't the case for most cadets and DEP these days.

Cons:


Risk - You are taking a huge risk that the current seniority and pay scale will be around in 20 years time. Remember we are talking about 2035 - 2040 here, so a lot can change. All it would take would be for BA to do a Mixed Fleet for Pilots on a LCC pay scale and your 20 years of loyal service are suddenly devalued. (At this point having earned hundreds of thousands less than a LCC) They could say the existing payscale will be run down with all promotions on new terms with a different pilot group. For those that say this will never happen, even with todays employment/union law its impossible to prevent new new groups on differnt terms joining. Look at the Cabin Crew and Openskies despute as evidence.

Financial - It wasn't that long ago that everyone at BA was asked to work "for free" because of the financial problems. Its not clear they are quite there yet in regards the deficit and profit targets.

Relations with crew - Still can't quite believe that BA asked pilots to fill in for striking crew and some actually did it. This one will take a while to get over!

Competition - Emirates has hundreds of wide bodies on order, which can't all go into Dubai. If it decided to buy its way into Heathrow or Gatwick and setup a hub, how long could BA compete given the efficiency of the fleet and other overheads?

Culture - I might be a victim of the press here, but it seems every month or so you hear about BA pilots in the press. Ie not doing ground checks properly, reading charts, sending inappropriate photos, murdering their wife, rude messages on ecam, suicide. Is this a problem at BA because the culture says your the best of the best and can get away with things? I really hope not and I appreciate that this is a tiny minority.


For those interested in the selection. I gained a lot from getting a note book, comfy chair and reading the whole of the DEP thread on here. However the main differences from it and the FPP selection (which I guess will be similar to the DEP)

1. The interview is very long, I was in there for over an hour. Expect the usual why do you want to work for BA etc. Over half of the time was competancy based questions, expect for questions on times when you did show the compentancy and when you didn't. Ie when you failed a customer.

2. The numerical / verbal reasoning didn't seem as challenging as the old ones. They were definately different as the time /question numbers stated in the DEP was different. Everyone else on the day felt the same, although we has all been screened on those at our FTO, so maybe we were already the best at them. The majority did finish the tests.

3. The aptitude tests, we only did 2. One was similar to the radar test described, the other was completely new. It was basically a capacity test, with lots of multi taskings. Think of your worse day in the office when everything is going wrong. It was based on a hybrid ECAM screen, so as qualified pilots you should be fine!

4. The group exercise(s!). One was a traditional exercise, which you would expect. The other one actually involved doing something with your hands. I won't say the exact thing but if you think of a traditional "bridge building with paper" then its not that far off.

Good luck for those going for it. If things work out we should see most of our Careers together.

Last edited by dontforgetthecowls; 15th May 2014 at 06:42.
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Old 14th May 2014, 16:43   #76 (permalink)
 
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Whybyflier,

You decided to go to CTC and blow a wad of cash and thus spent more than the 1% as you put it.

You agreed to easy Swiss T's and c's.

When have you ever felt fresh as a passenger after a short haul flight with a cabin pressure at 8k and the usual symptoms associated with that? So you knew what to expect. Same with the shock/ horror at being up at 3am. Really? Common....

Did you really think that you'd be sipping pink champagne while the gals swoon and drool over the young FO?

Time and money my ass. My degree took six years, been working for some time and don't come close to captains money. Moron.
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Old 14th May 2014, 20:29   #77 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: The Wood
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Deleting my post because it's not relevant to the thread and debating with 'maxed-out' will be futile.

Last edited by WhyByFlier; 14th May 2014 at 20:53.
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Old 14th May 2014, 20:41   #78 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
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You haven't a clue have you. Have you actually worked another field or lived life beyond your brief CTC to easyJet bubble? Amazing insight there.

I only commented because you seemed unhappy( read ungrateful)!
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Old 14th May 2014, 21:47   #79 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: UK
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There does seem to be quite a critical gap of anecdotal evidence that is quite impossible to fill. Easyjet pilots will readily admit that even just a few years ago their airline was a very different (read: worse) place to be. So naturally those that have left it for BA in that sort of timescale will quite rightly say their life has improved with the move.

At the same time, someone who joined BA more recently might only have experienced the low seniority, no weekends off side of the BA machine, and be disappointed.

Nobody can have experienced both the modern day easyjet and the "off the bottom" side of BA, so we're left with trying to build a picture of life at either airline with what we've heard from friends/colleagues.
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Old 14th May 2014, 21:47   #80 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: United Kingdom
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Excellent post dontforgethtecowls. I'm in a similar position, hopefully applying to FPP this year and considering EZY. The one thing I'd add is the loan guarantee with FPP. For me this puts it head and shoulders above anything else out there. If the worst happens and you get made redundant, you're not going to lose your (parents) house. Plus you know BA must be confident re the future if they're prepared to back themselves to the tune of 80,000/cadet. EZY aren't even prepared to guarantee you a min number of hours.


Of course for DEP this isn't really relevant....
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