Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Terms and Endearment
Reload this Page >

Ryanair Commuting and Base Changes

Terms and Endearment The forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.

Ryanair Commuting and Base Changes

Old 30th Mar 2014, 03:08
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Bedford
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Ryanair Commuting and Base Changes

I recently finished my flight training in early February. Since then I have been accepted for an FO position with Ryanair on the McGinley Storm contract, starting the type rating in August. I also have another job offer from a UK turboprop operator. To help me with my decision I was wondering if anybody with experience could give me their advice/experience on the following regarding the Ryanair contract:


- Commuting – I know that it is more than likely I will be given a base in continental Europe. I have a partner in the UK (London) an option for me is, therefore, to commute. I would greatly value experiences people have of the viability of this in terms of stress/time and finances.

- Base Changes – Another option is for my partner to move with me to the base I am given in Europe. She will obviously need to get a job at that base which will probably have a contract with some kind of minimum stay period. I was wondering how often Ryanair are likely to change my base – over a 5 year period for example. I realise this is going to be based on operational requirements and is a hugely differing and personal variable but an idea from personal experiences will hopefully give me some kind of aid in making decisions.


Thanks very much for any replies in advance.
Whiters is offline  
Old 30th Mar 2014, 07:17
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Scotland
Posts: 203
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I think your choice depends on your long term plans.

From a purely career point of view, Ryanair is the better option in my opinion. Despite all the negatives of Ryanair, the fact is you will get a jet rating on the 737. If the ever hits the fan in the future, a 737 rating is probably one of the best to have. On top of that, the experience you gain flying all over Europe is excellent, the training is to a very high standard and the time to command is fairly quick. If you have ambitions to fly jets in other parts of the world, or indeed to do so in the UK for another operator, Ryanair is an excellent stepping stone to do this. In the extremely unlikely event of you getting the base you want, Ryanair is an even better option as the 5/4 roster when based at home is great.

If you are at an important stage in your family life right now, the turboprop operator may be a better option. You will be safe in the knowledge that you will be based at home / close to home. You will presumably be working for a company with a much fairer management who will treat you better, thus giving you more security regarding your base if you and your partner perhaps are considering having children in the future. The experience gained flying for this operator I am sure will also be excellent; the problem perhaps is if you want to move on. It can be difficult to move from turboprop to jet in the UK. (Not impossible, just more difficult than if you already had a jet rating.) One option for this may be to move abroad as there are other airlines in the world lapping up turboprop FOs to give them their first jet job, (Eg. Flydubai.) But again this comes back to what you want in your future career / family life. I do not know which operator you speak of but you need to carefully consider how secure they are as a company. They could be the nicest fairest employer in the world, but if they go bust there is no job security at all!

To summarise and answer your other questions:
Ryanair Pros
737 rating, Great experience, very high standard of training, great stepping stone for other operators, Money still OK (but always in decline), Great roster IF you are in the base you want.

Ryanair Cons
Just read any thread on Ryanair on this website! Re commuting, it is difficult for anyone to commute at Ryanair, your roster effectively becomes 7 on 2 off. If you are unlucky and get a small base at the other side of Europe on a 5/3 roster, you WILL NOT BE ABLE TO COMMUTE at all. For a new cadet FO commuting even from an easy to reach base is probably not recommended. Unfortunately you never know what will happen next, so it is difficult to even say "you know what, we'll all move to the new base and start a new life there." They could move you again, they could even close or downsize the base. If this happens, do not expect any sympathy or compromise even if you have just moved your wife to the new location. You also need to ask yourself could you/would you want to move to bases in Morocco, southern Italy etc.
You must also plan to do your line training in a different base than the one you will start out in, and expect to be forced out of your base when you do the upgrade.

I have chosen to focus on the commuting, other stuff regarding the contractor issues etc are quite well covered in other threads.

I worked for Ryanair for 4 years and I really enjoyed it. I was lucky enough to be in the base I wanted for most of it and this made the whole experience even better. My reasons for leaving were purely to try something else, I was not unhappy there. But I was expecting to have to leave my base if I stayed to the command.

PM me if you wish to ask any other details

And finally, congratulations on finishing your training and securing a couple of jobs!
bigdaviet is offline  
Old 30th Mar 2014, 08:29
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: FL450
Posts: 314
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Sorry guys ,little bit off topic but have you compared the type rating cost of both of these options? Are the turboprop company going to charge you for their rating. How much is the Ryanair type rating at now????
speed_alive_rotate is offline  
Old 30th Mar 2014, 08:35
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Ryanair TR is 28,500 euros so 23.5K GBP
ben4395 is offline  
Old 30th Mar 2014, 13:40
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Nearer home than before!
Posts: 524
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Until something changes, Turboprop jobs are like getting leprosy in the UK now. You learn a lot, the people are great and the lifestyle good, but you just get looked down to by jet recruiters and ignored.


It's a dead end. I would never recommend you actually pay for a type rating on a Turboprop- because it's pretty worthless!
RVF750 is offline  
Old 30th Mar 2014, 14:50
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 226
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Age is a factor

I don't know the original posters age but I suspect it's mid twenty ish max.

If the TP job comes with a bonded TR, lifestyle you like and base which makes sense, then go for that job. You probably will get paid from day one of induction.

Your girlfriend may be all supportive now, but when FR changes your base twice your girlfriend ain't gonna be impressed. And they will. A mate of mine is with them and he also says it takes a long time before you actually get that first pay cheque. So you are 24k down for the TR plus living expenses and accommodation for up to 5 months. That's a lot to be in the red before you get your first salary.

Well done on two offers.
maxed-out is offline  
Old 30th Mar 2014, 17:39
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Cote d'Azur
Posts: 136
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Great to see some mature and helpful responses to this young pilot's query without excessive anti-(or pro!-)RYR effusions. Just useful and thoughtful observations.

Whichever path you choose, good luck in your career!
justanotherflyer is offline  
Old 30th Mar 2014, 18:28
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: uk
Posts: 910
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Sadly RYR is probably the better option, unless you have massively strong reasons to stay in the UK which we don't know. As previously mentioned, TP time is about as useful as microlight time. There are many threads on here posted by TP pilots desperate to get out and can't. Its sad, because you pick up so much useful knowledge hooning about the highlands in TP, but from a career perspective its a waste of time and money.
I don't want to sound patronising, but these days moving with the job is a part of everyday life, and you just have to hope that someday you will get a job with a top employer in a base where you can put down some roots. I have had that for the last 15 years, then out of the blue I have been rebased to the other end of the country. Luckily, my kids are now grown up, but its going to be hard on Mrs. Macdo who faces the choice of relocating with me and losing her network of friends and her job, or me commuting and being away for 20 days a month. There are no guarantees as of stability as a pilot now.
Its important that your partner understands this from the outset as it is not a good life for the one left at home whilst you commute or travel the world, and they are left to keep the home fires burning by themselves, if they are not comfortable with this kind of lifestyle.
Good luck and take the jet job.
macdo is offline  
Old 31st Mar 2014, 12:16
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 215
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
When I joined the industry I had no idea how unstable it was. On average I have not had the same type, base, employer or a mix of the three for more than 3 years out of nearly 20. If you choose to come in to this game you are going to need to have a very understanding and very flexible partner who needs to be as informed and involved in your decisions as you are. That is the only way it can work. If you can accept that and importantly so can your partner then the Ryanair job is the better choice for all the reasons everyone else has said. But the thing to remember is after you get your jet time at Ryanair and move on the future is not guaranteed to be any more stable. Even working for BA at LHR, the most stable job in the UK will mean a lot of time away from home. The sooner you have the "there will be times you hardly ever see me how do you feel about that" chat the better. And remember being away from where you want to be is just as hard on you even if it is to do a job you are desperate for. If you try to commute After about a year it will JUST be your job and you will likely spend a lot of time being miserable about not being at home.

Take the Ryanair job but do it with your eyes and your partners eyes fully open to what it will entail. With Ryanair there is no way of guessing what is round the corner. Assume you will get a remote Italian base on an uncommutable 5/3 contract but also assume that base might downsize or close in 6 months at which point you'll be in a Northern European base on a commutable 5/4 only to find you never fly from that base and spend your life looking for connecting flights and hotels.

On the other hand you are almost equally likely to get STN straight out of line training ahead of an FO who has been stuck in Kun for 4 years desperate for it and you will be very happy until command time.

Remember there is no fair and transparent basing system. There is no fair and transparent leave system and when you spend three months of every winter on stand by unpaid you do so at your base not where you want to be. And to top it all there is no one prepared to have an adult discussion with you on virtually any personal issue if it regards moving base.

Having said that if you settle in a base for argument let's say AGP and you like it there, as long as O'Leary doesn't decide to have a fight with the airport you could probably sit there happily for your whole time as an FO. That is the issue here. At no point as a Ryanair pilot will you be able to guarantee anything to your partner. If they can live with that then you will get a lot of good experience very quickly. However, if they have a definite plan of their own which doesn't fit in with you having to shrug your shoulders when asked where you think you'll be based in two years time there may be trouble ahead. Other opinions are available.
CheekyVisual is offline  
Old 31st Mar 2014, 12:56
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 938
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
As one who has been very critical of Ryanair, and much maligned for it, I think the advice by bigdaviet and CheekyVisual is absolutely first class. A 737 or Airbus rating is a path to the future, whereas a turboprop rating can be a path to nowhere (I have done both). The world has changed and the harsh reality is that total experience is no longer what it once was in terms of guaranteeing employability. What counts is an appropriate rating. Which is the better rating various year on year (my own view is that right now an A320 rating is more marketable than a 737 one, but that can change in a moment). Nonetheless, a 737NG rating is a great thing to have and I would jump at it before looking at a TP rating if there was any choice. In this care Ryanair is undoubtedly your best option (did I actually just write that?).
Alexander de Meerkat is offline  
Old 31st Mar 2014, 14:07
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Some where over the rainbow
Age: 37
Posts: 223
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
It's a sign of better times when someone out of flight school is getting a choice as to where to go.

I feel Ryanair is one of the best jobs around for a cadet provided you have budgeted correctly for type rating, period of not being paid, uniform etc. No point in listing all of it because you know what you signed up for.

All the advice offered are definitely valid and I would agree with them as well. You will rack up the hours very quickly at Ryanair and more importantly, they are jet time. Why jet time is any better than turboprop time isn't obvious to me because planes fly mostly the same in my opinion, and we fly pretty much as fast as a turboprop; on descent anyway.

The other thing you might want to think about is the job security for the foreseeable future. At the end of the day, regional turboprop companies not only have other airlines competing with them but also the trains.

In terms of base changes, I have been extremely lucky and have always been based in the UK. The furthest "out of base" I've had to do was STN so it does happen to some.
pilotho is offline  
Old 31st Mar 2014, 17:18
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 730
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Well done, ADM - I knew you had it in you!

Whiters, there is little unknown about RYR now. A look through this board will familiarise you with the problems with basing, leave and taxes that come with the FO contracts. Do not plan on getting a base you want - it may happen, but don't plan on it. Count on getting moved for two years on promotion, in the unlikely even you don't move on to bigger, better things by then. On the plus side, it's about the most secure flying job in the EU and if you keep your nose clean and score an average training record every six months, you'll be a captain in 4 years (less at the rate we're losing them).

Turbo prop is indeed a career dead end. The experience these guys get would be an asset and the snobbery of the jet operators unfounded, but that's how it is. Also consider that turbo-prop operators are small, their pay less and their futures much less certain; not many regionals are thriving in the current market. Flybe and Aer Arran are the two biggest in the UK and both are seemingly having difficulties.

I would recommend going for the RYR contract and using it as a rung on the ladder. Some are happy in the company, but they're a minority and 900 hours of intensive ops in all weathers on secondary runways is not a good long term prospect - it's great in the short term for gaining experience and proficiency, but it's very wearing 15 years on... The good news is that Emirates, Etihad, Qatar, Norwegian, BA and Virgin are all keen on our guys (and EZY's who have very similar standards and operation), so RYR is a good line on your CV.
Aluminium shuffler is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.