PPRuNe Forums


Terms and Endearment The forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 30th Mar 2013, 01:01   #101 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Somewhere between Avant and Vaton.....usually
Posts: 340
If you look at operators in the UK I reckon Jet2, Flybe, and Ryanair drivers would form the main interest in this gig, apart from experienced guys who are out of work of course.

Will an experienced permanent Flybe driver leave for anything less than a decent permanent contract? I doubt it.

Will a permanent Jet2 driver leave for anything less than a decent permanent contract? I doubt it.

Will an experienced contractor at Ryanair turn down a potential command upgrade course(in light of the 170 738s on their way) for anything less than a decent permanent contract? I doubt it.

It will be interesting to see what they actually put on the table.

Last edited by go around flaps15; 30th Mar 2013 at 01:05.
go around flaps15 is offline  
Old 30th Mar 2013, 03:17   #102 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Earth
Posts: 541
I think a flybe driver with the constant threat of the axe hanging over his head permanently and especially the turboprop driver would very seriously consider this move. Even if is not a permanent contract for the first 2 years, simply because he/she would gain a decent type rating with plenty of hours on it and have much more options open to him/her in the short term.
Stone Cold II is offline  
Old 30th Mar 2013, 04:46   #103 (permalink)


Probationary PPRuNer
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Somewhere In The South China Sea
Posts: 915
Ladies & Gents

Has anyone who has applied not received a confirmation email? I applied and did not receive one yet when I check the status of my application it says it's been submitted and received. I tried editing my details and sending another application and it still says the same thing at the end, which is:

Thank You

We've received your application

Thank you for your application. We're reviewing it to see if it matches what we need for this role and we'll be in touch once we have an update for you.
We invite you to look at the job openings available in our Career section and to further explore the functionalities of your account.

After trying three different email addresses it still doesn't send me a confirmation email. I've spoken to several colleagues and they all say they have a confirmation.

Thanks.
Deano777 is offline  
Old 30th Mar 2013, 09:53   #104 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SE UK
Posts: 77
Captainbirdseye.........."Monarch is about to recruit 70 ish FOs on perm contracts from day 1. That's a full salary deal with pension and health care not a watered down B scale"

Yep.....that's exactly what I mean.....take the longer term view!!!

No point having a permanent contract with scale A, pension, health care, gym membership etc from the start if it is unlikely to last.

I should re-phrase my earlier post...."there are many naive players (who have not been in an airline, with a mortgage and family to support when it has folded) on this forum who are taking the 2 year view...."

For me, it would be a secure job ANYTIME.
9 minutes to landing is offline  
Old 30th Mar 2013, 09:58   #105 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: The IMF.
Posts: 544
9 minutes:

Monarch have existed for 40+ years. Who are you to say they won't be here in another 2 years time?

As for a secure airline, yes, I agree that easyJet is secure.

However, there is a huge difference between the stability of the airline and the stability of a permanent job after 2 years.

Any number of things could happen in those 730 days that could affect the stability of your job offer.

I wouldn't be bandying around accusations of naivety if I were you. You could be accused of it yourself.
Narrow Runway is offline  
Old 30th Mar 2013, 09:59   #106 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SE UK
Posts: 77
Speedrestriction.......yes. 5yrs+.

...Well that is the typical time to a command based on the last command course that started LAST WEEK - unless you have more up to date information (!)
9 minutes to landing is offline  
Old 30th Mar 2013, 10:09   #107 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SE UK
Posts: 77
Narrow runway - bmi had been around since 1938. They only had enough money for a couple of weeks of further trading when they were sold to IAG.

Do you want the list of all the other airlines that have been around for 40+yrs that are no longer around?

I can assure you that the past is no guarantee to the future......now that is not a naive statement.......is it? You would be better thinking about current business models rather than when an airline was established.
9 minutes to landing is offline  
Old 30th Mar 2013, 10:44   #108 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: The IMF.
Posts: 544
9 minutes:

You like the sound of your own prognostications don't you?

As I say, Monarch have been around 40+ years. Who are you to say they won't be in 2 years time?

I note what you say about failed airlines, but who is to say that easyJet won't become one? All it needs it an adverse incident and it could all change very rapidly.

Plenty of people, not just me, seem to question your statements on this forum, which all seem to be blustering personal opinion.

Personally, I think it is a big risk to accept a 2 year probation period - and anyhow, why should we be subjected to it? These applicants hold professional licences and will have all gained significant experience elsewhere before applying to easyJet.

You sound like a management wannabe, or at best management apologist who enjoys talking down other organisations because you are under the misguided illusion that somehow your lot is better than that of everyone else's.

I agree - easyJet is a good option, but don't over egg the pudding please.
Narrow Runway is offline  
Old 30th Mar 2013, 11:11   #109 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Hampshire physically; Perthshire and Pembrokeshire mentally.
Posts: 1,227
Quote:
Historical time to command doesn't really apply anymore. 5 years or less was about right when the airline was expanding. With expansion finished, it's going to be a hell of a lot longer.
Expansion isn't finished at EZY. It's just pausing for breath for a couple of years.
Wingswinger is offline  
Old 30th Mar 2013, 11:40   #110 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 383
And although attrition is low, many FO's have just left/are about to leave for Monarch and last time BA were recruiting, they took scores if not hundreds of FOs not to mention a handful of captains. There is a small but steady trickle of FO's and some captains/training captains leaving for Emirates.

Command at Easyjet is far from being a dead man's shoes situation. I would say 5-10 years after becoming permanent, but closer to 5.
WHYEYEMAN is offline  
Old 30th Mar 2013, 11:45   #111 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Huh huh huh ... what was the question again?
Posts: 297
I agree that leaving a permanent position for a 2 year contract is undesirable and carries it's risk. But staying in a permanent contract with an airline can also be considered a risk, whether it be job security or career development. That can only be assessed by the interested party.

I don't foresee that easyJet will not take good experienced crew permanently at the end of the fixed contract period. The contract will probably be structured to become permanent after two years from the outset.

As for time to command, it changes on a yearly basis so impossible to say but on average easyJet does about 100 command upgrades a year. I'd say five years is a reasonable estimate right now.

It's far from great (paying for rating, contracting), and I'm just trying to help those interested with their thoughts, but the rewards are good. Alexander de Meerkat is right. On a permanent contract, easyJet is a very good place to be.
Beavis and Butthead is offline  
Old 30th Mar 2013, 19:33   #112 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SE UK
Posts: 77
Narrowrunway - sorry, wrong on both counts.

I seem to have touched a nerve - sounds like you have had a bad experience with easy in the past or is your comment "unbiased"?

Totally agree with the last 2 comments...
9 minutes to landing is offline  
Old 30th Mar 2013, 22:34   #113 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Eu
Posts: 644
I think a bit of coffee smelling is required around here. Sure Easyjet has a good business model (that doesn't necessarily mean it's particulaly well run though) and yes it's stable in terms of job security at the minute but you will work bloody hard for the cash- harder an in more imaginative ways that Flybe and alike could even dream of. They disrespect union agreements and pretty much make the rules up as they go a lot of the time (yes standard for an airline these days but unpalatable nonetheless)
The real issue is going into the new Brady style Easyjet with your eyes open. The only way you will ever see the existing command contract will be on a museum wall unless the existing employees gear up for a significant showdown this summer. there is classic good cop/ bad cop strategy in place at the minute where McCall plays the PR game eloquently and promises plenty while her sidekick is busy unravelling everything behind the scenes. By her own admission she would like to benchmark contracts with Wizzair.
Easyjet is no picnic but it may represent a good solution for some if you are willing to take the 2 year gamble.
Thad Jarvis is offline  
Old 30th Mar 2013, 23:23   #114 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: UK
Age: 35
Posts: 24
Non type rated easyjet recruitment?

Well, to be eligible for the NEC you need need 2 years as flexicrew and 1251 easyJet hours.
Random_walk is offline  
Old 30th Mar 2013, 23:40   #115 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: The Wood
Posts: 249
Swissair, Sabena, American and Air France were once airlines with incredible job security and no chance of going under.

For the likes of ADM and 9 minutes to landing (who I agree with more often than not) to be so confident in easyJet's position with the benefit of such myopic hindsight demonstrates the investors adage, there are those who don't know and those who don't know they don't know.

The business model works very well and the commercial team are sharp. The brand is superlative.

As an employee of easyJet and someone who was given a chance by the company I hope it continues to grow and succeed.

Last edited by WhyByFlier; 30th Mar 2013 at 23:43.
WhyByFlier is offline  
Old 30th Mar 2013, 23:48   #116 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: The IMF.
Posts: 544
9. Minutes

If being offered a DEC at easy, but turning it down counts, then yep, I've been there and done that.

Got a very nice job. But thanks for your concern!

Last edited by Narrow Runway; 30th Mar 2013 at 23:58.
Narrow Runway is offline  
Old 31st Mar 2013, 10:37   #117 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 678
Talk about T&Cs all you want, but I bet there are plenty of folks flying for Eastern, Loganair and other similar operators who are fed up of flying turboprops and seeing 200h blokes and blokesses get jobs on shiny jets.

I'll bet that, in the absence of other commitments (kids in school etc), this could represent the "big break" for quite a lot of those folks, and you could offer them a Victorian Chimney Sweep's Apprentice style T&Cs and they'd bite your hand off.
WX Man is offline  
Old 31st Mar 2013, 11:53   #118 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 121
Wx man - agreed.

Opportunities to go from turboprop to jet are rare enough so a majority of the crew will have applied. - especially for a jet job to remain in the UK.

Can't see any of the line trainers or TRE's applying tho as pay cut and funding a type rating won't interest them one bit. But can see a healthy number of line captains and FO's going for this.

Only jet job opportunity at the moment that seems to be taking steady numbers away is at fly-Dubai and that's not an option for everyone with a family if your not willing to move out of the Country.
Vulcan607 is offline  
Old 31st Mar 2013, 12:49   #119 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Netherlands
Age: 41
Posts: 50
I applied for it. For me this can be a good opportunity to switch from the military to civilian and gain a type rating and hours in a common type of jet.
PIC in a C17 does not make the airlines line up for you, I noticed So I see it as a future investment in a good airline career. Sure the contract is probably not the best and I have to take a pay cut but at least I gain proper experience in the airline industry. This might count for more guys out there flying T-props or at less stable airlines.
MikeHoncho is offline  
Old 31st Mar 2013, 13:07   #120 (permalink)

Mach 3
 
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Stratosphere
Posts: 613
What everyone who succeeds at the process needs to do is subsequently decline the job in solidarity with their other "successful" colleagues.

And watch yourself all get an instant 10K pay rise as EZY management realise we can actually get together and look after each other.

SR71 is offline  
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 15:57.


1996-2012 The Professional Pilots Rumour Network

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1