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Old 9th Nov 2012, 14:35   #41 (permalink)


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Locked Door you said that

Quote:
You cannot fly a Spanish registered aircraft unless you have a Spanish passport.
I don't believe this to be true, or does this only apply to a commercial operating sense? What about the British nationals in Spain learning to fly on EC-*** aircraft?
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Old 9th Nov 2012, 14:35   #42 (permalink)
 
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BA do not have access to any 'cash' from IB. IAG will not allow it. The cash reserves are for the group for expansion and future purchases which will be heavily discounted due to the size of the potential joint purchase.

No pirating at all! Aaaargh, just like sinking the Spanish Galleons again ;-)

Last edited by Wirbelsturm; 9th Nov 2012 at 14:42.
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Old 9th Nov 2012, 14:56   #43 (permalink)
 
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If they cut app. 25% of the planes, they should also cut 25% of the management payroll (either positions or compensation). After all, those are the people whose decisions most influence the profitability of a business.
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Old 9th Nov 2012, 15:12   #44 (permalink)
 
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'Nobody has bothered to explain why profitable IB routes have been given to BA'

Please tell us which routes? IB was pulling off many shorthaul routes before IAG came along. It must have been ten years ago that IB aircraft were starting to become a less familiar sight at BCN. I don't recall any long haul flights operating from BCN other than via MAD.

Remember that BA pulled out of BHX and pretty much from MAN years before IAG came along. They were going through restructuring when this happened and BHX in particular has struggled badly since.

Within IAG the funds of BA and IB are seperate.

I can understand you are upset but IB should have restructured years ago and you cannot seek to blame it on BA.
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Old 9th Nov 2012, 15:56   #45 (permalink)
 
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Even if IB were still a 'seperate' company with cash reserves do you honestly think that the Board, the investors and the shareholders would let IB run in such a shambles leeching cash out of the sum that you seem to blame BA for pirating?

Not a hope!

This restructuring is exactly what BA went through and now Iberia MUST face the same. I feel sad for those who will have to lose their jobs. Unfortunately it is a sad fact of reality that all companies must do the same, if not more, with less overheads in order to survive.

Stop blaming BA for this, BA have had no interaction with Iberia as far as management or finances go yet IB crews seem to hold this ludicrous belief that BA crews are to blame. Such ridiculous mutterings have been heard time and time again downroute. Not so.

Ironically IB seem to be experiencing far better T's & C's in relation to living costs than BA. Enjoy it while you can.
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Old 9th Nov 2012, 16:06   #46 (permalink)
 
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Alberto, this is a british forum. You are waisting your time with these people.

Everybody with a brain can see that since the merger Ib profits have gone down and Ba has been saved from doomwhile their profits miraculously started going up, routes have been cancelled when at the same time Ba started capitalising on those and basically the strategy of dismanteling IB in favor of ba is so clear that only patriotic bs brits wont admit it.

In any case the spanish government knows about this and they wont let PPRuNe idol willie walsh take over barajas and let him establish the T4 for Ba.
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Old 9th Nov 2012, 16:44   #47 (permalink)
 
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This is not about Iberia vs BA. Spain is bankrupt, unemployment at 25% and the country has to go to the Troika begging bowl in hand.

Iberia cannot sustain the size of their operation and I for one am surprised IAG waited this long and is only announcing the cuts they have today. They should cut futher and deeper than they are planning now.

I am patiently waiting for the next round of cuts to be announced in the next few months at Iberia.
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Old 9th Nov 2012, 16:46   #48 (permalink)
 
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dlcmdrx,

Quote:
Everybody with a brain can see that since the merger Ib profits have gone down and Ba has been saved from doomwhile their profits miraculously started going up, routes have been cancelled when at the same time Ba started capitalising on those and basically the strategy of dismanteling IB in favor of ba is so clear that only patriotic bs brits wont admit it.
Such drivel does you such a dis-service.

Please tell us all what routes have been 'transferred'? I'd love to know as I've not seen any. Infact the only changes I know of were a reduction in the BA flights to Madrid and the cancellation of the night stopping service there.

BA have not moved onto Iberia routes, I don't see any BA LH aircraft staging out of Madrid these days neither do I know of any increase on route frequency on these mythical 'stolen' route destinations?

The entire process of modernising BA, cutting costs, sorting the pension out, increasing productivity and cutting waste was in place and active prior to the formation of IAG, indeed the whole thing was timed for a 'new start' into T5.

All told IB is a dinosaur which has patently failed to move into the modern world. As with all things you seem to want to blame everyone apart from yourselves. You've lived it up longer than most, now you need to accept change. It's not BA's fault, it would have come to this or unemployment without the 'bs brits' help.

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Old 9th Nov 2012, 16:49   #49 (permalink)
 
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Alberto, dlcmdrx

Firstly, I wish all those affected by this announcement all the very best for the future.

However, I think you need to look at the bigger picture within Europe.

Spain (along with other economies like Greece and Portugal) are in severe difficulties. It is not just Iberia, it is the whole country, built on money primarily from Germany etc. Look at the infrastructure that has been put in place in the last decade or so - the motorways, the airport expansion, the railways - none of this has been generated by real Spanish growth, it has all come from public borrowing sponsored by the EU and Germany.

It has all come crashing down and been exposed as a charade and the result is falling house prices and 25% unemployment etc.

Many think that the deal done by IAG to give shareholders of Iberia 45%? and BA 55% of the new company was far too generous to Iberia and that it was done only because BA had missed the boat with KLM twice and lost out to Air France on that one.

As to route giveaways, it holds no water, BA has flown twice daily (and played at 3 daily) to JNB for years now. BA has flown to MEX for decades at 3/weekly and is now moving to 5/weekly in 2013, I understand, not at the expense of Iberia, but due to growth. The UK is forecast to be the fastest growing economy within the EU for the next 2-3 years.

Maybe you would like to explain how Iberia's most profitable route is now LHR (not LHW, btw) to JFK - a route they don't even fly? Without that 'profit', how much more would Iberia have lost?

Feel free to drown your sorrows in a cerveza or a rioja of two, but you need to get a dose of reality pronto, imho.
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Old 9th Nov 2012, 17:02   #50 (permalink)

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In this day and age, when pilot T&C's are being decimated left, right and centre, we need pan-European (at least) cooperation, not infantile, xenophobic, cross-border bickering.

Someone will always be top of the T&C's tree and assisting the defence of those conditions, wherever they might be found, is ultimately doing us all a great service.

While IB may very well need some re-jigging of their business model, the same is certainly true of the BA business model, is it not, certainly if LGW is considered....

Our enemy is not our fellow pilots.
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Old 9th Nov 2012, 17:27   #51 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Spain (along with other economies like Greece and Portugal) are in severe difficulties. It is not just Iberia, it is the whole country, built on money primarily from Germany etc. Look at the infrastructure that has been put in place in the last decade or so - the motorways, the airport expansion, the railways - none of this has been generated by real Spanish growth, it has all come from public borrowing sponsored by the EU and Germany.
Best post i have seen so far.
"been there, seen it"

Anyone can confirm (or deny) SEPLA managed (years ago) IB to buy 340s i.s.o. 330 because they (pilots union) wanted to cross the atlantic on 4 engines, not 2.......
(oh and also staying at 350 or below because of radiation......)

I feel very sorry for all the IB groundcrew, but not their pilots.
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Old 9th Nov 2012, 17:28   #52 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
You cannot fly a Spanish registered aircraft unless you have a Spanish passport. How would transferring Iberia pilots to BA (no restriction on nationality) be considered fair is the reverse is impossible.

Spanish protectionism at its best, part of the root cause (as well as ostrich impressions) of their current problems.
...
That is absolutely FALSE , anyone can fly an EC- registered aircraft!
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Old 9th Nov 2012, 17:49   #53 (permalink)
 
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Iberia to Lose 4500 jobs - 25 airframes

Slight thread creep, but surely locked doors comment above can't be accurate.

Spain is both a JAR and EU member. Anyone who holds a JAR/ EASA licence and is an EU citizen should be able to operate a Spanish aircraft.

If not, the first person to go to the European court would win
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Old 9th Nov 2012, 17:50   #54 (permalink)
 
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The facts for those who wish to know according to IAG may be found here:

IAG - International Airlines Group - Presentations

Last edited by Ham Phisted; 9th Nov 2012 at 20:17.
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Old 9th Nov 2012, 17:50   #55 (permalink)
 
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Iberia to Lose 4500 jobs - 25 airframes

Oops, crossed with Tienetti!
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Old 9th Nov 2012, 18:02   #56 (permalink)
 
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Is there any good news these days. I suspect if FR ever get hold of EI the same will happen. Regretfully the days of a job for life at the state airline are long gone
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Old 9th Nov 2012, 18:06   #57 (permalink)
 
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And, of course, typical spanish....another strike

BA Owner Faces Strike Threat Over Job Cuts
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Old 9th Nov 2012, 19:08   #58 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
And, of course, typical spanish....another strike
And why shouldn't they?

If I lived in a country where unemployment was running at 25% and my job was at risk I'm pretty sure I would be fighting for all I was worth as well.

Regardless of the rights and wrongs of the situation a little sympathy for those effected wouldn't go amiss.
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Old 9th Nov 2012, 19:15   #59 (permalink)
 
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I don't believe anyone would wish otherwise.
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Old 9th Nov 2012, 19:24   #60 (permalink)
 
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I think the gist of this thread is those misguided souls who believe that another company is 'directly' behind the predicament that IB finds itself in instead of accepting that change was inevitable.

I don't think you will find anyone without sympathy and feelings for those loosing jobs. Just as it was when BA shed about the same amount over the past few years.
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