Terms and EndearmentThe forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.
Didn't hear much noise from the bmi mainline pilots either. The only way BA could have been persuaded to take on the baby crews would have been to give BA concessions of a significant amount otherwise it would have been just that, noise.
The only noise I hear these days is " I don't like the way part time is done in BA so I'll stay in my bmi TUPE bubble".
18 months is already an extension beyond the standard 12 months for hold poolers. Perhaps there is also the issue of currency. An applicant out of work and unfortunately no longer in current flying practice may not have touched the controls in nearly two years by the time they reach ba. The applicant increasingly becomes a training risk as the clock ticks (they will pass, but how many sim sessions that are not available in the system will it take?). I'm sure there are many other factors.
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The 300 odd pilots who got in without doing the selection process...... Well let's just say there is a very demanding 18 day conversion course with multiple exams and hours and hours of sim work then the LOE, LPC/OPC to do before you are really in.
The vast majority of DEP applicants coming from any of the quality established UK jet operators would probably pass the OCC, as have the BMI guys/gals. However by my calculation over 90% of DEP applicants fail the selection process at some stage. They can train most pilots to operate an airbus/boeing 'the BA way' but have they got what it takes to be a BA captain one day? Only time can tell.
Sorry SR71 - but with BA Shorthaul pilots having to offer productivity increases of ~5% and less leave, just to bring BMI mainline into the fold, can you imagine what further concessions BA would have expected from the ranks, in order to type rate the BMI baby pilots.
Sorry, I will reiterate, you guys have my sympathy but in stark economic terms, it was a non-starter.
Spider man, its a fair point. I am trying to defend a position of 300 or so bmi pilots and forever being tagged with you did not pass selection. They are still having to prove their worth and ability to be a future or current BA captain. The OCC has not been without casualty and they are all being assessed by BA, all be it in a different way from the usual route.
Sorry SR71 - but with BA Shorthaul pilots having to offer productivity increases of ~5% and less leave, just to bring BMI mainline into the fold, can you imagine what further concessions BA would have expected from the ranks, in order to type rate the BMI baby pilots.
Your analysis is simplistic Sean.
How much did it cost to make them all redundant?
How many of them wanted to come to BA?
How many of them needed ratings?
When would they have been happy to commence their employment with the company?
Well we have a nine month period in which if we are still unemployed we will get an interview(that's a guaranteed interview) for any positions that BA recruit for, six months if your employed.
And I believe that we have preference over others in the hold pool, that is what I was led to believe by the HR bod in my consultation. Nine months is a long time!
If BA see someone who passed selection 15 months ago as suitable, but then, post 15 months, see's them as unsuitable and a training 'risk', then, is that not a failing for BA's management with regard to their confidence in their own inbred training department..?
Last edited by Craggenmore; 12th Aug 2012 at 23:32.
Hate to say this but if you don't like the BA way, do yourself an emotional favour and don't apply. The world doesn't owe anyone anything, go out an earn it!!! You'll feel better about yourself that way.
I would imagine that all costs were met by the discount applied to the sale of the BMI group by Lufthansa when they failed to sell Regional or Baby. BA (contrary to popular belief) ain't dim. If they don't want something, they won't pay for it.
I'll shall bow out of this rather circular argument and wish all BMI baby pilots all the best.
SR71, BA didn't want or need Baby pilots bmi mainline had more pilots than required So the simplistic Q?is what concessions BA would have required of the BA pilot community. Not sure how you'd persuade BA pilots to take a pay cut in order to bring another companies pilots into the fold. Perhaps the Q should have been asked of the bmi CC if you have bmi contracts . They negotiated with BA to keep outstations and training pilots on. Additionally some hold poolers and City Express pilots would not have been happy.
One wonders how many bmi P1's have been sending pictures of their willy to all and sundry recently?
sudden twang,
IAG may not have wanted all kinds of things but, as it stands, they had certain legal obligations when they bought the bmi Group.
Again, Sean Dell missed the point. Arguably, IAG want the Lufthansa discount for themselves, but they're paying to make bmibaby pilots redundant.
The contention is that it is costing them more to make bmibaby pilots redundant than it would cost to offer, the small fraction of them who would like, jobs at BA....at any reasonable time in the future. What is the time frame that applies in a redundancy situation at BA amongst the various employee groups?
SR71, The contention was about BA pilots shouting louder at BA to bring Baby pilots on board. If as you suggest it's cheaper to keep them ( and I find that questionable) then they must have other reasons. I'm not party to them and that's a discussion for you and others.
I noted BALPA wished to pressurise BA into offering available positions to the baby pilots.
However there are no available positions, although some rumour exists with regards to positions being available from Q2 2013. This remains unconfirmed.
So what is the suggestion? Further time invested in 'recruiting' the baby guys through the standard two day BA assessment or integration into BA without assessment? Is this a case of being offered an interview and assessment for an available position or immediate access to a position when it becomes available?
Last edited by Callsign Kilo; 13th Aug 2012 at 22:12.
Why has this turned into yet another bmi/bmi baby thread, it's getting a bit tiring. Whats the outlook for people waiting on stage 2 or people in the hold pool? Im not sure why I'm asking I lost hope ages ago.
The BA / BMI integration may not happen now because some of the former BMI 'part-time' pilots are considering not signing up for the integration deal because their BMI TUPE T&Cs are more favourable.
This means that BA pilots who gave up 2 days leave a year and 10% productivity changes in order to save their (BMI pilots) jobs will have to work harder so that 50% part-time BMI pilots can keep their 6 weeks leave per year whilst their 50% part-time BA colleagues only get 3 weeks? Nice!
