Terms and EndearmentThe forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.
Ryanair is great to work, in my opinion. You will find a lot of cr*p on here, all I can think that its all simply just made up by people who either haven't been successful in gaining employment there or people who have a personal grudge against Ryanair.
I haven't heard a bad word about them from the inside, all the pilots/staff/management I have met all seem happy and a great group of people.
You will always get people making pathetic comments against all companies, not everyone can be happy. Some of the pathetic moans are true:-
- They don't give pilots free tea/coffee, I've never worked anywhere that gives free tea/coffee nor do I want it.
- They don't give pilots free meals, whilst Ryanair food on-board is lovely (I imagine) I don't want it. I bring my own, it's easier and its what I've done in all the jobs I've had in my life.
Ryanair offer a great opportunity to new pilots to get an airline job straight out of flight school with 200 hours, not many other airlines offer that. They also have no problem attracting direct entry Captains from other airlines either.
You have two options in life, either moan about everything that happens to you, or be positive, the later will create more opportunities for you and will certainly get you a lot further in Ryanair.
If you want to join the moaning/negative group, join JEPA or LEPA whatever the union/anti-ryanair website is that the usual people keep spamming this forum with.
Feel free to ask any questions, I'll answer them if I can, If I don't know the answer I'll simply say, rather than make up something.
Last edited by FingerFlyer; 5th Aug 2012 at 16:52.
There will be so many different opinions, so indeed an interesting thread! Personally, I'm happy as I'm in my first preference base and I'm in my early 20's so for me, Ryanair has been a fantastic opportunity.
There are downsides of course, such as reducing hours and declining contracts, but the job itself is absolutely fantastic.
However due to my lack of life experience, I may be labelled here as extremely naive and immature. With only being in the industry for two years, I don't know any better, with regards to contracts and working conditions etc That is why to me, Ryanair are perfectly fine to work for.
Now some of the senior guys who have flown for various airlines over the decades will have a completely different view point to myself.
- They don't give pilots free tea/coffee, I've never worked anywhere that gives free tea/coffee nor do I want it.
- They don't give pilots free meals, whilst Ryanair food on-board is lovely (I imagine) I don't want it. I bring my own, it's easier and its what I've done in all the jobs I've had in my life.
Of all the things to mention it's interesting, to say the least, that these are the two you've gone for.
All new pilots are, and have been for a long time, recruited onto a contract through a contract agency.
This in mind, surely more pressing is the lack of genuine employment status and therefore all the benefits that go with it; No pension, no sick pay, no holiday pay, no set salary, lying outside the remit of employment legislation.
Self-employment exists so that one can provide their services to several companies for their own benefit. This is not the case as a 'Ryanair pilot' on one of their agencies' daft contracts and hence it's pure and simple exploitment of a loophole or a blind eye being turned.
It is for these reasons (among several high profile incidents concerning treatment of 'employees') Ryanair is often spoken about as being a bad 'employer' to work for.
Personal preference Lord Spandex, Coffee makes me ill, never drank it and wouldn't even if it was free. Tea on the other hand I do drink, not my No'1 drink, but I'll have it if I have to. Water is my favourite drink which I get from the machines before my flights, free believe it or not (the bottle cost me though ).
It would be a 'perk' to get free tea/coffee, but as I said I've never worked anywhere that gives this for free to employees. Usually in most companies there is a 'tea fund' where employees pay 20p a day or something to fund the tea/coffee/milk etc.
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This in mind, surely more pressing is the lack of genuine employment status and therefore all the benefits that go with it; No pension, no sick pay, no holiday pay, no set salary, lying outside the remit of employment legislation.
Self-employment exists so that one can provide their services to several companies for their own benefit. This is not the case as a 'Ryanair pilot' on one of their agencies' daft contracts and hence it's pure and simple exploitment of a loophole or a blind eye being turned.
It is for these reasons (among several high profile incidents concerning treatment of 'employees') Ryanair is often spoken about as being a bad 'employer' to work for.
BerksFlyer, I picked the two examples (drinks/meals) I gave as 'pathetic' moans that you get from people on this forum.
The example you gave above is a genuine moan as I can see why people moan about it, personally it doesn't bother me.
As a lot of pilots who fly Ryanair aircraft, I too work for my own company and provide services to Ryanair. If Ryanair asked me tomorrow if I would like to become directly employed, I would simply say thank you, but no thanks, leave me as I am please. Do you think my take home pay would be the same if I was employed directly? no it would be a lot less, as I'd be paying more tax.
I have a pension and pay in to it each month, I don't get sick pay (I don't get sick, thankfully), I don't get holiday pay, I don't want them as I get paid enough that it covers me easily when I'm on holiday. If I did get badly sick, I have insurance that will cover me for that.
I'm perfectly happy at Ryanair, and for new pilots joining look at other airlines (there aren't many that will take low hours) compare the take home pay at you will get providing services to Ryanair, to the likes of BA, Jet2, FlyBE etc, yes you may get sick pay, holiday pay etc at those airlines but you'll be on a lot less for that privilege.
Ryanair is a business and a very successful business, they will always think of the business needs when they offer contracts etc. this is how businesses work. I wish I could operate a business as well as O'Leary and his team, I'd certainly be a lot richer if I had that talent. If they operated like the legacy style airlines then they would just be on the long list of other failed airlines that are loosing masses of money each day.
Everyone has different opinions and views and it's nice to discuss them. But I have a very positive outlook on life and always have, I don't look for negative things and that's probably why I don't see them (if they exist), negativity makes you unhappy, life is too short for that!
I have a pension and pay in to it each month, I don't get sick pay (I don't get sick, thankfully), I don't get holiday pay, I don't want them as I get paid enough that it covers me easily when I'm on holiday. If I did get badly sick, I have insurance that will cover me for that.
This is why Ryanair and the profession in general is going down the jacks
FingerFlyer, can I ask you how long you have been providing your services to this fine reputable company? By the sounds of your enthusiasm- which I actually admire, I would say your either doing your line training or just finished it and have got your first preference base.....
Lord Spandex, the answer to your question is in my previous post.
Johnny, my base preferences were for any of the 30 odd bases at the time, I didn't care. However you do have to pick 3 as you know, and they gave me one of those, as did everyone else on my TR course, they try their best to put you in to one of the 3 bases you choose, made no difference to me, I wanted to and still do enjoy the experience of living in another country.
Not getting the base of choice I can see would upset people who had family (kids, wife etc) at the first choice base, I'm lucky that I don't have these to hold me back.
However you do have to pick 3 as you know, and they gave me one of those, as did everyone else on my TR course, they try their best to put you in to one of the 3 bases you choose
Thankfully FingerFlyer's mentality is rare at Ryanair. In fact, apart from a few DEC Captains from Eastern Europe who are scared of losing their job and having to move back east, and all the new cadets who are grateful for an airline job and know no better, he is the first person I've encountered who hasn't been severely critical of Ryanair. It just goes to show how overwhelmingly efficient the Ryanair management brain-washing machine has become...
It is no wonder that industry terms and conditions are decreasing and most people blame FR when we hear this kind of company propaganda.
Pathetic? I find my drinks refresh and hydrate me during the day, so I can perform my duties to a safer and more alert standard. The same goes for food.
I would say it is what you're used to - if you know life without food, I can understand why you wouldn't miss it.
I like tea, you must like tea
Of course we all need food/drink to survive, I never said I could live with out it. Doesn't mean that the company you are with should pay for it. In my last career we use to have a staff canteen, the prices in there were higher than the prices you will pay for food on airlines, yes it was supposedly subsidised by my employer too, they also had a venting machine that required my own personal coins to get food/drink out of it.
I spent a year working on a big metal thing that floats too (boat), I had to use my own money to put food/drink in me there too, they gave me water though, not that I would drink it, I used my own money to buy bottled water.
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Until the tax man catches up with you?
I pay tax, the tax man catches up with me each year in 3 countries he's nice!
Hopefully my accountants do the accounts properly as I wouldn't know. I have indeed got independent tax advice in the country where I pay tax, my home country and my base country, they are all happy with it and have no problems. I can do no more to make sure I'm legal, if they don't know about tax then there's no hope.
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You don't get sick? What about when you crash the car and break a leg? Or worse? I had a long period of compassionate leave (on two occasions sadly) while I was flexi crew.. and trust me, the lack of any income is an extra worry you really could do without.
As I said in my post above, I have insurance that covers me for this (touch wood it doesn't happen). As for the compassionate leave, I don't think that you can get insurance for this, but it's one of those things, I give people the same advice as I have always done my self, put 50% of your wage to one side (save it) if you can't put 50% then put as much as you can. I'm lucky, I don't have family or large loans so I put 80% to one side, the rest I spend on rent and waste on cr*p. Do the above and you wont worry about finances, always prepare for the worse.
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I don't work for any of those airlines, but from my friends in Ryanair I know that I don't earn less after I pay my taxes.. especially as most people seem to be suffering from low hours this summer. I had a big life lesson when I first joined my company with a family sadness and learned how there is a hell of a lot more to life than just counting pennies.
I have friends at Jet2 and BA, who's gross is less than my net take home. FlyBe I was just going by the figures on their website. They do have more job security though.
You are very correct I like tea, there is a lot more to life than money, personally money means nothing to me, I wouldn't know what to do with it, although money does take away some of the worries especially in hard times.
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This isn't an attach or negative to you in general. Your enthusiasm is impressive and I admire it... but I just wanted to point out there is another side to the story.
I know its not, it's nice to discuss things. Thank you, it is very hard to be positive and happy in today's world, and I like to try my hardest to help others be happy but unfortunately to be happy we have to do something very hard, be positive and its a lot easier to be positive when you are around those who are positive too.
I have suffered from close family members being ill and later passing away, its very hard, but we all celebrated their lives and remembered the happy moments, it makes the grieving a lot less hard. It's important to remember the good things in the past, but even more important to embrace the future, sadly none of us have much of a future, lets all enjoy the gift of life we have it can be taken so quickly.
Last edited by FingerFlyer; 5th Aug 2012 at 19:16.
I'm lucky, I don't have family or large loans so I put 80% to one side, the rest I spend on rent and waste on cr*p. Do the above and you wont worry about finances, always prepare for the worse.
Its all fantastic for you now but when will it end? Are you still one of these "I'll do 850 hours a year and gain command in four" cadets who actually believe the gash coming from Brookfield or Storm? I agree with one thing, I wouldn't take the FO contract from FR, it's crap - this has nothing to do with PAYE though.
The 'I don't get sick' line tells me you are sniffing glue. Get yourself loss of licence cover, if you haven't already.
If you read my post, you will see that I'm not a cadet, I was never an 'Ill do 850 hrs guy' infact I expected to do about 500 hrs, my first year I did 840 my second about 800 and this year looks to be on track to be the same.
Again, read my post, you will see that I have insurance for the time I do get sick.
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You appear an enthusiastic chap, but get a grip of reality. Educate yourself on what's actually going on. I'm not bad mouthing the airline, they will always do what they see fit; just don't stick your head in the sand.
Thanks. I'm very happy with life and work, why should I search for the negatives that I don't see.
If you work at Ryanair you will know the person who decides where to base the new cadets, I assure you that preferences are taken into account. If you don't get your preference, put in for a base transfer, I transferred base last year, not a problem. I've also worked in other bases in the summer, what I experience is flexibility, I can't fault the system.
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They hire cadets because it costs them nothing to do so. They make money from it. You harp on about a fantastic business model, well your recruitment is a major part of it. How do you feel about the fact that as the expansion is complete, the recruitment of cadets will continue at the very same rate as when the airline was growing? Have you worked out what that means for you on your Brookfield or Storm contract? Not everyone is heading to Emirates!
As for DEC's, nowadays, the vast majority, if not all, join from airlines that have folded.
The last good 10 DEC's that I have seen, all came from other airlines that are still alive and kicking, they just wanted a better life and a stable roster. I've also seen Captains leave and come back.
I doubt much money is made on type ratings, I would think they save a lot though. Yes its a great business model in my opinion, and it shows in how successful the business is.
And to the previous poster, yes I am free and single but I'm not just building hours I'm building experience and I work and study very hard.
Last edited by FingerFlyer; 5th Aug 2012 at 19:42.
but no, I don't even work for Ryanair let alone being apart of their management.
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