Stay on ERJ-145 or move on to EMB-170/5/90 with another company
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Stay on ERJ-145 or move on to EMB-170/5/90 with another company
Evening chaps,
I'm in a bit of a bind and could do with some advice. I'm currently flying the Embraer 145 for one of the biggest regional airlines in the world. I've been here for about a year, everything is stable, we're hiring around 600 pilots a year and I have about 500 beneath me on the seniority list at the moment. I live 20 minutes from my base.
I've just been offered a job by another company flying the EMB-170 series of aircraft. The company is stable, but it would appear that staff morale seems to be quite a bit lower. They are in contract negotiations at the moment which have been ongoing for the past five years. They also have a base where I currently live, but it's 50/50 as to whether I would be based there initially, and so a commute might be the only option for my first six months or so at the company. The money is a little better than where I am at the moment. I would also have to sign a two year bond if I took the job.
I'm really between a rock and a hard place on this one. I currently live in my wife's home country and our long term plan has always been to return to the UK. Based on that, which option would you take? Would you stay on the 145 and hope to move on to something bigger in the next couple of years, or would you accept the risk and make the jump over to the other company to fly the 170/175/190?
All opinions are very much welcome! I'm driving myself insane trying to make a decision.
I'm in a bit of a bind and could do with some advice. I'm currently flying the Embraer 145 for one of the biggest regional airlines in the world. I've been here for about a year, everything is stable, we're hiring around 600 pilots a year and I have about 500 beneath me on the seniority list at the moment. I live 20 minutes from my base.
I've just been offered a job by another company flying the EMB-170 series of aircraft. The company is stable, but it would appear that staff morale seems to be quite a bit lower. They are in contract negotiations at the moment which have been ongoing for the past five years. They also have a base where I currently live, but it's 50/50 as to whether I would be based there initially, and so a commute might be the only option for my first six months or so at the company. The money is a little better than where I am at the moment. I would also have to sign a two year bond if I took the job.
I'm really between a rock and a hard place on this one. I currently live in my wife's home country and our long term plan has always been to return to the UK. Based on that, which option would you take? Would you stay on the 145 and hope to move on to something bigger in the next couple of years, or would you accept the risk and make the jump over to the other company to fly the 170/175/190?
All opinions are very much welcome! I'm driving myself insane trying to make a decision.
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I had to commute for two years and it was hell for me and my other half. It was very expensive both financially and emotionally.
I now live 20 mins from work and despite the fact my t's and c's aren't the best in the industry, I'm not moving (despite better offers which meant commuting again)
For me living at home is so much more important than any job in the world.
I now live 20 mins from work and despite the fact my t's and c's aren't the best in the industry, I'm not moving (despite better offers which meant commuting again)
For me living at home is so much more important than any job in the world.
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Stay where you are BUT you and I already know you won't!! You see the chance to fly something bigger even though the view out of the window is the same and the novelty of the new type will wear off after about 3 weeks. Pilots can't help themselves - they crave new bigger and better challenges. Very self / family destructive I'm afraid.
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Here is a novelty answer, I used to fly something smaller and then moved to something bigger and I long for the days to return to something smaller - bigger equals long boarding times, more chance of hassle from passengers, longer flight times (boredom), long turn around times - everything is just dragged out...I miss the 'shut the door' and go, up and down, job done go home type of flying.
Food for thought, I'd stay exactly where you are.
Food for thought, I'd stay exactly where you are.
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You can hardly call the 170 big and it doesn't go that far. Notwithstanding that the 145 flight deck compared to the 170 is essentially the same so the novelty will wear off even quicker than normal.
It's all about lifestyle.
It's all about lifestyle.
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My advice to you is exactly what an "older" colleague advised me some years ago when I posed a similar question to him, he paused for about 30 seconds rubbing his chin etc.etc. he turned, looked me in the eye and said "If you are happy and home for your tea most evenings, sit tight and wait for the mountain to come to you" I did and it did and now I am like a dog with two tails and still home for my tea most evenings....
Capt.R.
Capt.R.
EMB,
I'm pretty sure you're probably at XE and thinking about jumping ship to RP. My advice......don't do it. You've got 500 numbers below you, so you should be off reserve and enjoying a fairly good quality of life? Especially as you're off 1st yr pay.
There is a reason why RP has the 170-190; their contract sucks for various reasons. A good friend of mine is a 5th year FO and barely breaks even because legs get removed from his trips and he doesn't get paid for them.
If going back to Blighty or even somewhere is Europe is your final aim, what you fly won't matter, other than its a jet. Also, there's every chance you'll probably end up paying for an initial TR on either a Boeing or an Airbus and believe it or not whether you're on the 145 or 190 won't matter because it'll still be a step back in technology.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
I'm pretty sure you're probably at XE and thinking about jumping ship to RP. My advice......don't do it. You've got 500 numbers below you, so you should be off reserve and enjoying a fairly good quality of life? Especially as you're off 1st yr pay.
There is a reason why RP has the 170-190; their contract sucks for various reasons. A good friend of mine is a 5th year FO and barely breaks even because legs get removed from his trips and he doesn't get paid for them.
If going back to Blighty or even somewhere is Europe is your final aim, what you fly won't matter, other than its a jet. Also, there's every chance you'll probably end up paying for an initial TR on either a Boeing or an Airbus and believe it or not whether you're on the 145 or 190 won't matter because it'll still be a step back in technology.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
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Thanks for the advice chaps! You're all pretty much reinforcing what I believe to be the right decision. As Jockster said, as pilots we are our own worst enemies and I have to admit to a bit of a grass is always greener attitude with just a pinch of shiny jet syndrome too! I've flown bigger aircraft than the 190 in the past, and hopefully I will again in the future. The advice given to Capt Ronweb seems to be very true. I'll sit tight and wait it out. Thanks again.
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If Kenny is indeed right about the airlines involved... I have no idea who told you Republic is "stable", but you've been fed a line.
Their 50 seat flying is in limbo.
Nobody knows what's to happen with Frontier.
Bases are closing with associated displacements.
They've either furloughed or threatened to furlough every autumn for the past four years.
Reserve rules are an accident, violation or fatigue call waiting to happen. You will likely be subject to them for a long time.
Your "50/50" odds for your choice of base are optimistic at best, and bidding a new base is still a ridiculous process.
They've voted to strike AND the company just unilaterally violated contractual status quo (translation: The pilots might actually get to walk).
First year pilots have no protection from the union during a strike (translation: Scab or get fired).
Contract negotiations can be generously described as stalled.
Contract negotiations can be realistically described as an acrimonious quagmire.
The two year bond is being enforced rigidly.
Your new ERJ type rating will carry an SIC limitation, which can be a bitch to get removed or transferred to some foreign licenses. Something to consider in your case.
The money is only better than XJ when upgrade happens. Upgrades are happening at a glacial pace.
If you're referring to the new FO payscale, that's the unilateral violation of status quo I mentioned. It wasn't negotiated, the union hasn't signed off on it, and it could disappear at any moment. It's a stopgap solution to attract folks just like you who have no idea the mess they're walking into.
With 500 people below you at your current airline, you're already closer to upgrade than 5-year pilots at Republic.
You're not flying pistons, and you're not furloughed. Those are the only two groups of people I would recommend even considering going to Republic in the middle of all this. The larger Embraers aren't what's nice for the CV as much as getting jet time in general, and command jet time in particular. Pilots at the regional level are so conditioned to aggressively advance their careers, they need to stop and make sure they aren't moving backwards. If you'd like any further details about my experience with Republic, please feel free to send me a PM.
Edit: Sounds like you've already made the right decision, EMB. Here's hoping you make it home soon. The day I broke out of the US airline industry was one of the best of my career.
Second Edit: Speak of the devil. I just received a text from an old pal stating the company has just now cancelled the FO payraise. As in, in the past half-hour. "Stable", they ain't...
Their 50 seat flying is in limbo.
Nobody knows what's to happen with Frontier.
Bases are closing with associated displacements.
They've either furloughed or threatened to furlough every autumn for the past four years.
Reserve rules are an accident, violation or fatigue call waiting to happen. You will likely be subject to them for a long time.
Your "50/50" odds for your choice of base are optimistic at best, and bidding a new base is still a ridiculous process.
They've voted to strike AND the company just unilaterally violated contractual status quo (translation: The pilots might actually get to walk).
First year pilots have no protection from the union during a strike (translation: Scab or get fired).
Contract negotiations can be generously described as stalled.
Contract negotiations can be realistically described as an acrimonious quagmire.
The two year bond is being enforced rigidly.
Your new ERJ type rating will carry an SIC limitation, which can be a bitch to get removed or transferred to some foreign licenses. Something to consider in your case.
The money is only better than XJ when upgrade happens. Upgrades are happening at a glacial pace.
If you're referring to the new FO payscale, that's the unilateral violation of status quo I mentioned. It wasn't negotiated, the union hasn't signed off on it, and it could disappear at any moment. It's a stopgap solution to attract folks just like you who have no idea the mess they're walking into.
With 500 people below you at your current airline, you're already closer to upgrade than 5-year pilots at Republic.
You're not flying pistons, and you're not furloughed. Those are the only two groups of people I would recommend even considering going to Republic in the middle of all this. The larger Embraers aren't what's nice for the CV as much as getting jet time in general, and command jet time in particular. Pilots at the regional level are so conditioned to aggressively advance their careers, they need to stop and make sure they aren't moving backwards. If you'd like any further details about my experience with Republic, please feel free to send me a PM.
Edit: Sounds like you've already made the right decision, EMB. Here's hoping you make it home soon. The day I broke out of the US airline industry was one of the best of my career.
Second Edit: Speak of the devil. I just received a text from an old pal stating the company has just now cancelled the FO payraise. As in, in the past half-hour. "Stable", they ain't...
Last edited by thepotato232; 28th Mar 2012 at 19:24.
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I agree stay where you are unless you are moving to a decent airbus or Boeing operator, with those ratings you are far more globally marketable in the current climate within the industry. Having done the tours around Europe ( on the 145 actually ) it is nice to be home on your own patch in the evening.
Cheers
Cheers
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If you do make the jump, make sure you have the 1000 command hours on the E145 before you do. Unfortunately, the smaller airplane means on/off interest from Emirates if you wish to have that as an option (not everyone does). That fact seems to be driving a lot of decisions about aircraft choice/size - you always want to have OPTIONS in this career.
FYI - I have had the E190 described as one big "bic razor" with it's plastic flight deck. Bigger is not always better - unless you need time on the bigger airplanes to move to the Middle East...
FYI - I have had the E190 described as one big "bic razor" with it's plastic flight deck. Bigger is not always better - unless you need time on the bigger airplanes to move to the Middle East...
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Training
God forbid you have a habit of landing 3' - 5' off centerline on IOE. They'll extend your IOE and then you'll be GONE after flying with a CKA who will spend his time focusing on showing you shortcuts on how to use the FMS and telling you that in order to be a CKA you have to believe you are better than 99% of the pilots in the group.
