Ryanair/qatar airways
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Ryanair/qatar airways
Hi guys,
Got today a question from a wannabe ofwhich i, to be honest, did not know the answer.
If you compare ryanair and qatar airways what would be the best company to work for? Moneywise and working wise.
Someone knows or has an idea?
Got today a question from a wannabe ofwhich i, to be honest, did not know the answer.
If you compare ryanair and qatar airways what would be the best company to work for? Moneywise and working wise.
Someone knows or has an idea?
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Well with Qatar you will be a SO for at least 2 years, that means cruise pilots so I guess you can't log any hrs plus you are not allowed to land or take off. I can imagine it can get pretty boring at times. Plus the Salary as SO with Qatar will be less than what a RYR FO makes. Living in the Middle east on a low salary is also not the nicest thing, prices are way up there almost double as compared to countries in southern europe... I know people who lived there and they all said the climate and lifestyle sucks if you are not super rich down there... The main advantage with Qatar though is that you do not have to pay for the typerating plus extras, which is a biggie though...
It's actually not an easy decision...
But you can considder yourself as pretty lucky if you are in the position to have these options...
It's actually not an easy decision...
But you can considder yourself as pretty lucky if you are in the position to have these options...
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Regarding previous post:
You will not be SO for 2 years, maximum 18months, more like 14 months, but can be less than a year from when you start, all depends how fast the training is and which fleet you're on...
Salary less than RYR... Not too sure about that, don't think so... you need to take into account that what you get as salary is money in your pocket, you don't pay rent, utilities, or tax... at the end, even on SO salary, i think you'll be on more than FO ryr, once your on FO Qatar, salary does jump up considerably..
Living out in Qatar, if you're open minded and are proactive, there are things to do and life can be pretty good, all depends on you.. Very easy to sit in your apartment in the Middle-East and say liife S*** or boring
You will not be SO for 2 years, maximum 18months, more like 14 months, but can be less than a year from when you start, all depends how fast the training is and which fleet you're on...
Salary less than RYR... Not too sure about that, don't think so... you need to take into account that what you get as salary is money in your pocket, you don't pay rent, utilities, or tax... at the end, even on SO salary, i think you'll be on more than FO ryr, once your on FO Qatar, salary does jump up considerably..
Living out in Qatar, if you're open minded and are proactive, there are things to do and life can be pretty good, all depends on you.. Very easy to sit in your apartment in the Middle-East and say liife S*** or boring
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Can I know what are the prerequisites to get in Qatar Airways' cadet program? Is it similat to the Ryanair's ones?
It may interest me, but I won't start my training until mid-2012, which means I won't be qualified to work flying until at least mid-2013.
EDIT
I have looked for the Qatar Airways' cadet program, but found nothing on their careers website. Is this program still opened?
I found only this
It may interest me, but I won't start my training until mid-2012, which means I won't be qualified to work flying until at least mid-2013.
EDIT
I have looked for the Qatar Airways' cadet program, but found nothing on their careers website. Is this program still opened?
I found only this
Second Officers - Fast Track
- Minimum of 1,500 hours in Modern Multi Pilot Turbo-Prop greater than 12,000kg MTOW
- Valid ICAO ATPL or Frozen ATPL
- Valid Class 1 Medical.
- ICAO English Proficiency Minimum level 4.
- Age below 35 years.
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SO's are only that until they've finished their line training sectors (it's a lot of sectors, either 120 or 140 off the top of my head). Takes about 6 months on the A320 and over a year if you get on the widebody.
SO's are not cruise pilots. They are occupying the RHS from day 1. SO only refers to the restriction of sectors / having to fly with a line trainer.
Can't comment on the SO wage (think it's about 10 or 12K QR plus sector pay?). As a widebody FO I was clearing about 26 to 27 thousand Qatari Riyal in the hand every month, plus free accommodation provided. No tax of course. I think if you compare it on a cash-in-hand after-tax basis, you'll find that's more than most RYR captains make, let alone FO's. Especially considering you're not paying rent and considering all the stealth taxes in UK / Europe like council tax, VAT, TV licence, fuel tax (used to spend 3 or 4 hundred quid a month just filling up my car in Britain, it's virtually free in Qatar of course).
The down side is that the airline culture is brutal and fear driven, one mistake and you're out, trash talk the company to the wrong person and then find you've been reported and you're out, forget to wear your hat on the walk round and you're out, get caught with a cabin crew girlfriend and you're out. Etc etc etc.
The training is generally of a very low standard and it's also fear driven with very little positive feedback or encouragement, parrot fashion regurgitation of the ops manual is encouraged, using your brain to think laterally and solve problems is not. Get used to saying "yes captain I see captain" a lot, even when the guy is an ignorant third world buffoon, they can make your life hell if you disagree with them. RYR would be streets ahead in terms of training standards and actually becoming a "good" jet pilot after a couple years on the job.
Other big downside is the town itself, it's a completely desolate sh!t hole with nothing to do except hang out in the malls, or drink in a soulless and stupendously overpriced 5 star hotel bar where guys outnumber girls 10 to 1. It's not so bad if you're single and a gym rat or prone to other solitary pastimes, but think very very hard if you have a family.
As an expat cadet you'll 99% likely go on the A320 and that's another whole can of worms with regard to rostering and fatigue, consecutive night turnrounds to the subcontinent and min rest in Doha, go read the threads in ME forum because the guys there tell it like it is better than I can, it's a big and very serious issue in terms of safety as well as lifestyle.
As a wannabe you'd have to take the QR job over RYR if you got it, just because you don't have to splash the big cash for the rating. TBH they're both stepping stone jobs though, bend over and squeal for 2 or 3 years and then try to get in somewhere decent with a sustainable lifestyle
SO's are not cruise pilots. They are occupying the RHS from day 1. SO only refers to the restriction of sectors / having to fly with a line trainer.
Can't comment on the SO wage (think it's about 10 or 12K QR plus sector pay?). As a widebody FO I was clearing about 26 to 27 thousand Qatari Riyal in the hand every month, plus free accommodation provided. No tax of course. I think if you compare it on a cash-in-hand after-tax basis, you'll find that's more than most RYR captains make, let alone FO's. Especially considering you're not paying rent and considering all the stealth taxes in UK / Europe like council tax, VAT, TV licence, fuel tax (used to spend 3 or 4 hundred quid a month just filling up my car in Britain, it's virtually free in Qatar of course).
The down side is that the airline culture is brutal and fear driven, one mistake and you're out, trash talk the company to the wrong person and then find you've been reported and you're out, forget to wear your hat on the walk round and you're out, get caught with a cabin crew girlfriend and you're out. Etc etc etc.
The training is generally of a very low standard and it's also fear driven with very little positive feedback or encouragement, parrot fashion regurgitation of the ops manual is encouraged, using your brain to think laterally and solve problems is not. Get used to saying "yes captain I see captain" a lot, even when the guy is an ignorant third world buffoon, they can make your life hell if you disagree with them. RYR would be streets ahead in terms of training standards and actually becoming a "good" jet pilot after a couple years on the job.
Other big downside is the town itself, it's a completely desolate sh!t hole with nothing to do except hang out in the malls, or drink in a soulless and stupendously overpriced 5 star hotel bar where guys outnumber girls 10 to 1. It's not so bad if you're single and a gym rat or prone to other solitary pastimes, but think very very hard if you have a family.
As an expat cadet you'll 99% likely go on the A320 and that's another whole can of worms with regard to rostering and fatigue, consecutive night turnrounds to the subcontinent and min rest in Doha, go read the threads in ME forum because the guys there tell it like it is better than I can, it's a big and very serious issue in terms of safety as well as lifestyle.
As a wannabe you'd have to take the QR job over RYR if you got it, just because you don't have to splash the big cash for the rating. TBH they're both stepping stone jobs though, bend over and squeal for 2 or 3 years and then try to get in somewhere decent with a sustainable lifestyle
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Thank you Luke for your interesting post!
Just one question: how many hours of flying time did you have when you applied for Qatar Airways? Were you SO?
Just one question: how many hours of flying time did you have when you applied for Qatar Airways? Were you SO?
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Yeah forgot to mention.. SO is a Middle East way of saying Junior First Officer... after you line check you go to FO title + benefit/salary...
As mentioned, living out here and how much you enjoy it or not depends on you... There are many things to do out here if you go and find them, for example in between flying i play rugby, ice-hockey and 5-aside... trips to the desserts for some sand dunning and bbqs also a favourite and much more... all depends on how proactive you are and willing to mix with others to find things to... we're all different...
No info on the site regarding SO, fast track will not apply if you are Abinitio, I was recommended from my FTO, best to contact the airline directly for SO info...
As mentioned, living out here and how much you enjoy it or not depends on you... There are many things to do out here if you go and find them, for example in between flying i play rugby, ice-hockey and 5-aside... trips to the desserts for some sand dunning and bbqs also a favourite and much more... all depends on how proactive you are and willing to mix with others to find things to... we're all different...
No info on the site regarding SO, fast track will not apply if you are Abinitio, I was recommended from my FTO, best to contact the airline directly for SO info...
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I never said it was a written "rule" spamcan, neither did I make it up. There was no "rule" about Evian when that captain got fired either. They made it retrospectively.
To be fair, in 90% of cases they don't fire the pilot they fire the girl - and put her on the immigration blacklist for next couple of years so she can't return to country and see her boyfriend - yes I do personally know one couple where that's exactly what happened.
Yes it's perfectly possible to maintain a relationship as long as you're discreet and careful about things like putting pics of yourself together on face book, sharing taxis together. But the real question is why should you have to put up with the constant being careful and looking over your shoulder and fearing for your job, when there's plenty of good jobs elsewhere where they treat you like grown ups?
If anyone wants any further insight into the weird and wonderful world of QR's "rules" regarding interpersonal relationships, go search on the ME threads for the strange story from a couple years ago, of a very nice A320 captain who was humiliated and terminated via "chop ride" on direct orders of the CEO, because he defied the company rule of requesting permission to marry his G/F.
And then ask yourself if that's the kind of outfit you realllly want to work for
To be fair, in 90% of cases they don't fire the pilot they fire the girl - and put her on the immigration blacklist for next couple of years so she can't return to country and see her boyfriend - yes I do personally know one couple where that's exactly what happened.
Yes it's perfectly possible to maintain a relationship as long as you're discreet and careful about things like putting pics of yourself together on face book, sharing taxis together. But the real question is why should you have to put up with the constant being careful and looking over your shoulder and fearing for your job, when there's plenty of good jobs elsewhere where they treat you like grown ups?
If anyone wants any further insight into the weird and wonderful world of QR's "rules" regarding interpersonal relationships, go search on the ME threads for the strange story from a couple years ago, of a very nice A320 captain who was humiliated and terminated via "chop ride" on direct orders of the CEO, because he defied the company rule of requesting permission to marry his G/F.
And then ask yourself if that's the kind of outfit you realllly want to work for
Last edited by Luke SkyToddler; 27th Mar 2011 at 00:30.
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I would also take some of the negative rumours about Qatar Airways with a large pinch of salt.
Sure, there are a lot of rules...is the UK or Europe any different? Will you get sacked for forgetting your hat once? No. The 'bottle of water' incident is well known out here and there is far more to that story than people will have you know.
Most interviews are conducted in Doha, but not all. It'll be a bit of a whistle-stop-tour, but you will get about a day to look around.
Training is generally far better than it used to be, and still on the up. There is a big backlog though and QR tends to bring guys (and gals) out here, put you in the queue, and then let you enjoy the pool for 6-8 weeks...while being paid!
Sure, the life is very different...but everything is what you make of it, and what your expectations are. I have family out here and they really enjoy it. Just do plenty of research and work out what is important to you before you decide.
Hope that helps.
Sure, there are a lot of rules...is the UK or Europe any different? Will you get sacked for forgetting your hat once? No. The 'bottle of water' incident is well known out here and there is far more to that story than people will have you know.
Most interviews are conducted in Doha, but not all. It'll be a bit of a whistle-stop-tour, but you will get about a day to look around.
Training is generally far better than it used to be, and still on the up. There is a big backlog though and QR tends to bring guys (and gals) out here, put you in the queue, and then let you enjoy the pool for 6-8 weeks...while being paid!
Sure, the life is very different...but everything is what you make of it, and what your expectations are. I have family out here and they really enjoy it. Just do plenty of research and work out what is important to you before you decide.
Hope that helps.
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Have to get permision to open a bank account, have a phone installed, get gas and electric, get married, leave the country, etc etc. Why on earth would anyone with an ounce of sense want to go there, especialy as it now looks like a future war zone!
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I have to say I've found it to be as spamcandriver says. There are days when what LukeST said applies too although the remarks about the training are well wide of the mark in my experience (that may be partly down to different fleets)
This is a place I'd never have contemplated coming to myself but needs must and it was the best offer at the time and still remains so. The other 2 airlines I had interviews at have both since gone out of business.
As to whether to choose this over ryanair for a cadet/SO programme - that's a balance. I accept that the picture of how you're treated in ryanair probably doesn't entirely match reality but I suspect that you'll be better treated in Qatar Airways by a long way.
Spanner
This is a place I'd never have contemplated coming to myself but needs must and it was the best offer at the time and still remains so. The other 2 airlines I had interviews at have both since gone out of business.
As to whether to choose this over ryanair for a cadet/SO programme - that's a balance. I accept that the picture of how you're treated in ryanair probably doesn't entirely match reality but I suspect that you'll be better treated in Qatar Airways by a long way.
Spanner
