"great company if you are senior - truley bad company if you are junior. With no movement high up in the ranks this situation will remain for many years. Senior boys yearly get all nice leave, all nice trips, all lucrative winter secondments and summer temporay basing. Good for a rating and thats about it really!"
Not completely true Pinhead, leave and long haul are bid for and allocated on a points basis, seniority only comes into it if two or more are bidding for the same trip/leave
Last edited by Tango2; 27th Mar 2011 at 10:50.
Lots of behind the scenes negotiation re our pay claim this year, rumour has it we may be bringing in new, flatter, pay scales for new joiners TBC! New pension deal has just been voted through meaning FOs with long service left will see the biggest cuts. Top heavy on Captains, 10+ years to command.
As a result considerable numbers rumoured to be leaving for mainly BA plus a few others. This would screw the program for this Summer as our esteemed management decree there will be no fat whatsoever.
Career break folk have been asked back early without any penalty.
There is a possibility of some recruitment earlier rather than later, it depends how many actually leave, I would expect a mix of cadets and experienced 73 drivers possibly on Summer only contracts.
great company if you are senior - truley bad company if you are junior. With no movement high up in the ranks this situation will remain for many years. Senior boys yearly get all nice leave, all nice trips, all lucrative winter secondments and summer temporay basing. Good for a rating and thats about it really!"
Learn how the leave/carmen/LHaul bidding systems work and maybe you too will never work Christmas!! 7 xmas's in a row, 2 Haj's, 1 Canada contract & Im off to Goa this week for 5 days.
Bottom 5th of the list. Don't blame the systems just because you don't know how they work.
sorry if I offended you, I just get frustrated when people blame our bidding systems when I don't think they are that bad. Seniority obviously has some effect, I don't have a problem with that, I just bid knowing what I can achieve. For example, I never bid for Summer leave so i know Ill get 2 out of every 3 Xmas' off, a tactical LH bid on the third and Bobs your uncle. Is that selfish? I don't think so, I've never had the delights of a week off in August or July.
Kilo, I suppose we are slightly luckier on the 756. Really the point I am trying to make is that seniority has little effect on our day to day life, and new joiners shouldn't be put off just because they won't get a Summer temporary base or a Winter contract.
Double China, I agree, i am in the bottom 10 % of the list hanging onto the 756 by the skin of my teeth, I am sure the 737 awaits me next year. I have no major issues with the system either. I get enough weekends off, even in the summer, Good success with longhaul bidding, school holiday leave this summer, Christmas leave this year ,thats 3 xmas' off in a row now with some tactical bidding. Yes, Carmen produces some undesirable roster patterns,but i have no major gripes. Better than working for a living.
Can someone please give an example of one of those poor rosters? And Doobler, why is it five days in Goa? Do you have to stop somewhere enroute? Where are some of the more interesting layovers for you guys? Which is most senior or least senior? Cheers!
Goa is only served by two flights a week, MAN & LGW. Therefore depending on the schedule, a crew could have anything from 24 hours to 6 days. Its the same in Mombassa, Male, Aruba plus a few others. In contrast, our most popular destinations, CUN, Orlando, Dom Rep, there are loads of flights from all over the country so 24 hours stops are more common.
We get a long haul bid 6 times a year and the trips vary massively. Most Summer work is 1 or 2 nights in the Caribbean or Orlando whereas Winter is a real mix. Lots of 2 - 5 day trips, Barbados is a favourite, last time i went, there were 4 crews for four days, as it ties in with the cruise ships. Add in the adhoc stuff, we crewed a 76 for the Scandies all Winter so everyone got a shot at a 9 day Phuket. Its a good mix but in all honesty, don't expect it to stay that way. All future recruitment i would expect to be on the 737. Soz.
Donkey D, not sure what you mean about seniority, all trips are open to every one, the most difficult to obtain are the 5/6 day Orlandos. Having said that I did one last year and I'm quite junior.
Thanks for the response. In the Summer do you guys do Canada too, or do you do more 1 day trips to Canaries and Greece? Is it easy to pick up open trips to places like CUN or MCO, or are they gone quickly? Do the 737s do layovers or mainly out and back day trips? And where are your most senior bases, vs most junior? Cheers!
Now we all know that even 2 weeks is a long time in aviation and things change moment to moment but word from Thomson HQ is no further recruitment expected for at least 12 months - I called them last week
I have had two weekends off since January, all weekends have been to CMF, I bid to not go there but all other F/O's considered "experienced" bar a few are given other flights. Even called me on leave to go there. During the week my roster is kind of protected so i can go to CMF. I know the dispatchers and fuellers by name. Flying in the winter is poor unless you get a detachment. Summer is very tiring, minimum days off and never a chance to get flexi (to bloody tired to even want to bid for it).
All flights are generally returns apart from a few SSH flights where its slipped and its only flight crew that stay. Some guys stayed in SSH so often that they got to know people by name to, going to SSH once a week ain't so nice after a while.
Bidding doesn't work for me at all (bottom 10%), on the 737 fleet seniority rules for bidding. F/O's getting priority over Capt. RHS flying is a farce, have lost count of number of times that I have spoken to someone when I or a couple of other F/O's could have flown it. Cant send any more emails to the head of Carmen and rostering to point it out.
The crews on the fleet are very very good, more relaxed and friendly. Most CC prefer the 737 as the FD are much nicer (their words not mine).
I've been trying to bid onto the 756 since I joined the company, alas to junior. Was told that all new joiners would be onto the 737 when i started but was surprised to see guys and girls joining onto the 756. Kick in the teeth.
Ocean, you will be welcomed onto the fleet when you do eventually come to it. Its a plane that makes you think tho.
[QUOTE] Perhaps if things are so bad then you guys should have stood by the guys who were made redundant last year [QUOTE]
What an interesting idea!
When I was at TOM, the bidding system was variable. For me, it never worked, so I stopped using it. As did most people I knew, but then I flew in the regions and Carmen was much more productive at the larger bases.
My opinion is that any new joiners will go to the 737, and will not see any long haul for quite some time. Bases are likely to be CWL/NCL/GLA etc although they were under crewed when I was there, that may well have changed. I also expect them to do what TCX are doing and offer summer only work to begin with but hopefully i'll be proven wrong in that regard.
Having now flown for both TOM and TCX I would say expect very little stability in the charter market. As soon as the economy or political issues flare up you will have management banging on about Pilot surplus and most winters wanting to reduce the establishment. They are also trying to address these summer/winter imbalances and really don't want any permenant full timers. Of course if you get in during expansion and ride your time at the bottom of a list you will have a very enjoyable career.
Historically Midland bases are very difficult to come by so expect to spend a few years else where before you get your base bid