Well done. That's a much more factual post and looking at that list I can vouch for some of those. Maybe we can put an end to all the nonsense now?
As for Warwick, I'm sure he doesn't mind. You can't live by the sword and not expect to take a couple of swipes now and then.
Also interesting to imagine what, in the very near future, FR will look and feel like as a place of employment when this Rapid expansion stops. So many people have been born and raised in it in FR they've never known anything else. No more quick upgrades, base transfers will become even more difficult, the rotating door policy of employment coming to a slow. Interesting times ahead.
ryanairpilotSTN - very interesting and apparently well-informed post. I was under the impression that Ryan's business model was to a degree, based on continued expansion thereby enabling money to be made off the trade in due course of each new airframe??? I could be mistaken on this point. Also, with the expansion stopping, then a drastic reduction in opportunities for 'P2F ' wannabees results.........Whilst bad news for the wannabees with dosh, could this not, ultimately prove to be a very good thing for the industry as a whole? This large, constant demand for 'P2F' wannabees from such a major player has surely led to a great downwards pressure on all our Ts and Cs. I take great encouragement from your post, I hope it's not misplaced.
Just out of interest, If people are saying that pilots in Italy, UK, and Spain are going to be made to go onto permanent contracts, and they will not allow bases to be stacked to the rafters with Brookfield pilots, does that not give the pilot community a huge opportunity to fight back?
Look at it this way, currently if you were employed as a new pilot in Ryanair as a First Officer in the last 4 years, you are Brookfield, as are most of the new Captain upgrades. Lets take a conservative number. FO = 80% Cpt = 40%
Now, most of those will be in europe on a 5 year contract. So if they are made by the local government to be full Ryanair employees, and they offer very bad terms and conditions, then all the Brookfield pilots say NO, and what happens? I would say that even if there are 5 crews per aircraft, with the massive percentage of them being un-operational due to the fact they are contractor, means that there will not be enough crews to cover the Europe based flights.
Just a thought, because I know I would not accept some of the permanent contracts that are being handed out at the moment. I would rather be at home with my family UK and working an office job then sitting in a country I don't want to be in, working for a company I resent, paying out for accommodation in 2 places, doing duty hours I am not getting paid for AND getting paid less!, and wishing I was at home!
Just food for thought, but it seems to me that if Ryanair is made to put all the contractors onto full time contracts and they don't accept it, they will not be able to plug the holes that they leave in the schedule fast enough with full time guys.
I have heard on the jungle telegraph that things are starting to pick up massively in the industry, and especially contracting.
I know a number of agencies that are now specifically targeting Ryanair pilots in order to get 737 pilots in the far east and China.
Some of the contracts on offer at the moment are, or better then stated here, (and tell me how this compares to your command at FR and BRK).
250 P1 3000TT US $160,000+ NET Ranging from "8 weeks on - 4 weeks off" to "6 weeks on 3 weeks off" 80 hours per block (80+ = overtime) Housing, medical, uniform paid. Free eco flights home each block off
I hazard a guess that the Brookfield command salary, (I mean estimation of hours that you might or might not work), and most certainly the pitiful Ryanair contract does not compare to that, yet when the command does come along, then you will be working out of the base closest to your home, and end up doing something in the region of 7 on 2 off, (6 on 3 off if you can fly home after an early shift). Of course, if you break the rules and the law and fly on the day you are operating to get to work on Jumpseat duty travel, and not declare it as FLIGHT duty hours for positioning before operating, then you might get another day at home.
I know where I would be going if I were a captain in Ryanair!
Nothing has changed at ryr, it's goals are still the same, growth and profits, nothing else matters, and it will never will change, you did know that didn't you? Surely before buying the job you knew that? So now you don't like being based away from home and you're gonna show em by leaving for Emirates and be......er farther away from home! You see the virus that you helped to spread has eradicated the traditional industry and their T&C's, that you are now so desperate to join. Those T&C's were hard fought for over many years, with solid values that the most arrogant of posters on this thread dismiss and mock as old fashioned and out of date. Early Twenties, one type and nothing left to learn.......... The truth is there will never be an exodus big enough, and there will never be a collective will big enough to change anything. As an FO you have a shelf life, either upgrade on ever reducing pay or be gradually side lined. Take a look at the ryr thread in jobs and sponsorhip. 99 pages full of wannabes, all who would gladly tread you face down to scramble into your still warm seat. You know the sort don't you...
The reality is that Airlines are no longer supported by the Tax Payer and have to make a profit for their share holders. You need to look at the big picture and not follow the heard in attacking FR pilots.
Keep 5/4, it is on the Ryanair website as a recruitment tool so they know its a valuable style of roster that allows people to commute and have a reasonable life. 5/3 is very difficult to work with re commuting resulting in one day at home before launching off again. Stop pretending that FR is well paid it aint, if you look at any other decent airline total packages, FR's is one of the worst paid gigs in the short haul jet market not to mention the good contracts on offer in the Mid and far East.
How about as already mentioned a transparent base transfer list. We work hard, very hard we are very efficient pilots, a cursory glance at any airports CDA and tracking info will reveal that. We have the lowest level bust rate in the industry. Yes good SOP's but good pilots too. we run a fuel league which is not really a safety tool and not all that fair but it can be assessed and judged that we try hard to do our bit.
I'm not a left wing nut looking for equal treatment with management, they make tough decisions and should, if successful be rewarded. However we as pilots make tough decisions every day and are at the coal face doing it, not talking about doing it.
For any FR management bods reading consider below.
STG equivalent ₤ All captains €100,000 Line trainers €120,000 TRI €130,000 TRE €150,000
Second officers €40,000 First Officer €55,000 Senior First officer €70,000
But try telling that to a FR SSTR cadet and they shoot you down in flames, they can not see that they are in part responsible for the conditions they so complain about now. They were all quite happy to be part of the Ryanair jigsaw. MOL and his cronies certainly did a good job in brainwashing them all as instead of them seeing themselves being bent over they see the forking out of $100k in training as the biggest bargain of their snotty nosed lives, without a care to what they have done to the industry as a whole in T&C's.
Too right FR pilot's get a bashing as they have pissed too many people off. AS Frank Booth rightly says, a lot of GOOD men worked hard for many years to get to where they were only for FR cadets to come along and unravel all the good work they achieved. Now they all want to leave and get the rewards of their forefathers. What a bunch of hypocrites.
Did someone post a list of people leaving that I didn't see would be very interested in having a look at that see if I can maybe add to it?
FB and MOLG.....yawn!
The problem is not all these cadets coming in it's the fact that the people that are leaving are the ones the MOL is relying on to fill the LHS over the coming months. New cadets take 3/4 yrs before they can do that job I'm not worried about the newbies. I heard MOL was very angry to hear that all the FO's were leaving after what he had done for them .....why do you think he told the papers that he thinks an FO's job can be done by cabin crew. I think that was his way of saying you back.
The plan is for FOs, CPs, Engineers, Cabin Crew, to move on to a """better""" airline ...if they can...and if it suits them... and if they can make it work for themselves......
For God sakes, its about time that people moved on from the little box or bubble (call it what you want) that ryanair has created and the endless .............. endlesss ......... fight / debate / debacle about SSTRs; cadets; PTF; that has continued for many long years and still continues here on PPRuNe today, and frankly has not changed the intentions of many guys just out of flight school searching for a job who are willing to pay for a job, or the beliefs and attitudes of the lads/ladies who are far longer in this career....
We're all in the same boat so why not help eachother get out of the situations rather than persistant reminding of how people feel others' decisions have been!?
There are jobs out there.. Think about the rest of the world with bigger eyes and a more open mind.
if i had to fly a low cost operations , 4 sector day on a 737NG, i would rather do that in Europe and not flying nights DUBAI to indian subcontinent to feed Emirates, while living in the sandpit and home everynight, away from home.
The fact that this thread in 6 months has had over 340 replies and 90,000 views it's says a lot about how many people are wanting to leave - that works out at over 480 views a day.....much like ryanairs fuel figures the facts don't lie!