Terms and EndearmentThe forum the beancounters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work. Let others in the industry make educated choices on where the grass is less brown! Scheduled, charter or contract -
I was wondering, now that our airline is looking into firing some of us, and that we are waiting to see where the axe will fall, if some of our more experienced collegues (those who have been there for more than one cycle, that is), would be willing to share their opinion on this matter.
Did you get a better or worse job when the job market picked up?
Any crisis hat the potential for improvement. As it - unfortunately - is true that a war is frequently followed by an economic boom afterwards, this crisis has the potential of cleaning the market from less viable contenders, giving us pilots the opportunity to find a better job than the one we were holding before.
Just think of some of the examples in business aviation where companies for a long time thought that growth could go on forever and ordered airplanes, hired people etc. like there was no tomorrow. Today we all know better.
My personal experience tells me, that we have to ride out the storm, maybe invest in further training ourselves (if we can afford it, that is) and be ready when the surviving, fitter companies start hiring again.
I was made redundant post 911. I managed to keep a flying career but had to drop way down from jet training captain to turbo prop captain, flying freight. It took me five years to claw my way back up to the left seat on a jet with a decent salary again. I expect in todays market, you would have to be optomistic to expect to do even as well as that today.
The East has never had so many lookers, those that in better times would not have looked twice at the area (and would be rather disparaging about it) are now rapidly back peddling and in desperation flinging out their CV's. Mass exodus anyone?
Now I am on the A320/321 with a big UK Charter company
Yes, but after paying your own TR, so not sure that counts as a reason to be optimistic. Is it a permanent job?
I have gone from jet to TP this recession, and not sure when I'll sit in a jet again. Just keeping positive, reminding myself I'm still in the game, and trying to enjoy flying a noisy old aircraft. At least it's command time, so should count for something at some point. I know plenty who are completely out the game at the moment. For them, it is not a case of something better, just something soon.
After 9/11 there was still quite a bit of work around. I left what was perceived as a very good job (flying large red red and silver aircraft) to be offered several jobs. I decided to move out East. in the end, it proved to be a very good move.
I left a UK long haul (Red tails) airline early this year - admittedly, I did it at the first sniff of trouble. I was an SFO there.
I was offered a DEC seat on an A320 for an expanding Central European loco. Sure, the benefits aren't quite as good, but it's a long term contract, I take home plenty every month and am in the LHS.
I think it worked out OK. And I was fortunate enough to get enhanced voluntary redundancy from my previous employer. Therefore, I have no debts and cash in the Bank, so even if my gamble falls flat, I'm OK for a while.
More luck than judgement in my actions though possibly, because at the time aviation was still recruiting. It would be different today I imagine.
Yes, but after paying your own TR, so not sure that counts as a reason to be optimist
Dr Eckener,
I understand you bitterness to a certain extent, but isn't it so that you do whatever it takes to get on with your life / career? Be it a self-paid type rating course or any other qualification.
I was fortunate enough that I never had to pay for any of the type ratings that I collected until today, but I am far from sure that it won't ever happen to me.
Times will change. We all know that. Until then it's only realistic to keep on flying - even it if is a turboprop (nothing wrong with a turboprop, by the way - done that for many years).
I left the same red tailed outfit 18 months or so ago to enter the corporate world. Unfortunately just in time for the biggest meltdown business aviation has ever seen. Now at the wrong end of a long seniority list I am staring down both barrels. In the process I seem to have excluded myself from any chance of getting back into the airline world as I am no longer current and also from any chance of another corporate job due to too few hours on current type.
I believe this is known as being between a rock and a hard place.
If you have a paying job, even if it involves flying rubber dogsh*t in a TP, consider yourself amongst the blessed and stick with it.
Not bitterness, but the original poster was wanting examples of people finding better jobs during/after a recession. IMHO buying one does not count as an improvement, more spin from the poster, chai ja. I am sure he/she is chuffed to have the job, and good luck to them, but it does not seem to merit such brash optimism in my book.
I think the reality is people finding work lower down the food chain, or ending up doing something else until they get back in the game at a later date. This is certainly the reality from my position, and the many I know who lost their jobs with me.
Well, as said before, I was mostly after personal stories from earlier downturns from ppruners who were there and who can tell what their experience was and how does it look now from the distance, and not after the neverending discussion whether one should pay for the own TR or not. I am happy to hear that you got a better job though!
I wanted to put a little "flesh on the bones" of my tale, so as not to appear a smartarse.
I worked for a lime green charter company in 2001 as a new FO on 757's. I was plumb bottom of the list and facing the chop. Instead of waiting and hoping, I left on sabbatical for a big, yellow 757 cargo outfit at EMA.
A better job? Not as glamourous, but better because it was secure? Hell, yes!
After 2 years, I returned to the lime green outfit who had by then become a blue colour. They rated me on the A320 and A330.
Better job? Yes, than both the previous, because it had the "glamour" of passengers and some long haul. Secure? Yes, because they had resized and were profitable.
Then I went to the red tails who gave me the A340. Didn't like what I saw coming, so left.
What does this tell anyone? I don't know, but it has given me a healthy suspicion of when announcements are made, they generally work out worse than initially hoped for, but do work out better in the end.
I don't like waiting for the chop. I believe in directly maintaining control over your life.
Sure as night follows day, things will improve. It's just gonna take time.
Congrats on the LHS at the pink/white outfit! Just out of curiosity, would you return to the red tail outfit in the future? Was your experience with them a positive one? Many thanks (from a wannabe).
Having flown TPs and regional jets, I thought I had everything when I got my dream job on long haul. Then 9/11 changed everything and I was on unpaid leave/furloughed, fortunately only for a few months as that was a shorter recession.
I was forced to look around and we ended up getting the offer of coming to the sandpit. So far, it's proved to be a good move for us even though I could have gone back to my pre-9/11 job. When it doesn't suit us, or when something better comes along, we'll be on our way.
So yes, there can be better jobs when the market picks up. You have to assess and decide if something looks better. Sometimes it's a gamble.
Fair enough Stan....hope in abundance helped my career, which enjoyed 4 redundancies in 4 years between 1997 and 2001. Only the first was my doing. (failed TR).
This time, things look pretty different. My thoughts are that anyone losing their flying job must be flexible for a while, and hang onto their ambitions to stay flying as best they can practically. And that's after paying the bills.
Well, the whole point here was to know a bit more about our own industry by those who have been here longer.
I am not suggesting this downturn will be the same or any different from the previous ones, but surely there is something to be learnt from others who have been in similar situations to those we are now facing, from the actions they took and the outcome it brought them.
I am after both success stories and the other ones.
.
What my father said to me was ...
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