Terms and EndearmentThe forum the beancounters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work. Let others in the industry make educated choices on where the grass is less brown! Scheduled, charter or contract -
In my opinion your posts are very valid to this discussion. It's a pity your CC friends don't post as well. Would be nice to hear some of their experiences. Find it hard to believe they were good enough to be released after line training and then after one year of successfully doing their duties in a safe manner, only to be replaced by someone with less exp...you know the truth, so don't pretend.
Reading between the the lines you honestly say how things are. And I think your posts, like all the intimidation from the w house are actually improving the possibility of a positive outcome from the future democratic elections.
If you are not happy - You could always start your own airline - as suggested by a previous poster.
Hope you are enjoying this warm weather we are having.
Who knows where we'll be next year. Maybe with BALPA we might have a say.
"...[sic]... Following a meeting earlier today in Dublin, if Balpa are recognised at Luton. Luton as a base WILL close. (i repeat - LTN WILL CLOSE) Luton pilots WILL NOT be offered a position at another bases.
Any other UK base gaining recognition will result in the same outcome.
The following will apply elsewhere if Balpa recognition gained:
1) 5/2 6/3 roster
2) Base transfer freeze and no CU courses.
3) Loss of allowances...."
Anyone care to take a pic of this LTN memo with their mobile phones and post it on the web?
If it follows an official meeting it will be surely signed by those who promulgated it and would be of interest to all viewers be it UK based or not.
During WWII there were countries which cowardly opened their doors to the Nazis in fear of retaliation and those which fought back; if today german is not Europe's official language we have to be grateful to the latter ones.
Great to see that this debate is drawing the management snakes out from under their stones.
commandb thanks for posting the latest ryanair managements threats and intimidation attempt.how pathetic to see that some pilots still cannot see the shit they are in,working at ryanair.along with the management stooges and plants on here.i have yet to see why i would not vote for BALPA recognition.This is the pilots of ryanairs' chance and we are going to make sure it gets through.
danny the ltn list has been recorded and forwarded to the interested bodies.
I can't believe Ryanair actually threaten to close a base where BALPA is recognised and not give the crews a job anywhere else. I was genuinely shocked to read that.
How low have your expectations fallen if any of you here think that's acceptable.
Surely it must only be the managers on here pretending to be pilots that can think that's O.K.
"Strikes me that the responses have been quite subdued when you consider that the BALPA email was quite scurrilous."
And what, pray tell, do you think the Ryanair "Recognition Roulette" communication was ?
At least BALPA have the guts to put a name at the bottom of their written communications !
PS Don't feed the trolls !
PPS Re the LTN "news" , sounds like a load of unsubstantiated b*****ks to me, probably spread in panic by Anti union supporters or just another union busting technique. Very much doubt it's authenticity.
I think your boss is a complete Arse and I really do wish you guys/gals all the best! Do not let this excuse for a human being degrade you anymore. I am a Balpa member with another Loco and I only have to look at Ryanair to see what life would be like if we never had a voice!
I am continually appalled by the dreadful management policies at Ryanair, and in my view this continual abuse of management power is precisely why you need BALPA. Lets be realistic - if Ryanair do decide to close Luton Flybe, Easy and a raft of other airlines will be utterly delighted to expand into the void O'Leary leaves and you will all get jobs with airlines that believe in union recognition and don't believe in intimidating their workforce.
Much as O'Leary likes to think he is master of the universe I'm afraid even he can't buck the market. Millions of people want to fly out of Luton, dozens of airlines want to carry them. My other piece of advice is to hold simultanous ballots across all Ryanair bases - that way even if only half of the bases vote for union recognition he can't close half the bases can he? Well not if he wants to remain CEO for very long!
Fact is at last you have management on the run and that's why theiy're making their ridiculous threats. As an earlier poster remarked the only way to fight a bully is to stand up to them collectively.
Incidentally, I find it astonishing that O'Leary manages to sleep at night with this on his conscience. He's in a position to go to his deathbed having done some good in his life or having spent his life doing others harm. If the man had a shred of human decency he'd choose the former course.
Guys I'm banging my head against a brick wall here.
I keep asking for one thing. Please answer it.
How are BALPA going to help our conditions? How are they going to make management listen and act when they don't have to?
I don't care if you think I'm a manager, I still want the answer so PM me if you'd prefer.
I would love to work for an airline that has a union that works, but from what I understand that would require a management setup that listens. We don't have that, so aren't we trying to tackle this from the wrong angle?
As a workforce we have often been likened to a group of sheep on this forum, so if it helps you understand how it feels at the moment - it's like having a useless shepherd and everyone suggesting changing the sheepdog.
So please, please, please tell me how BALPA are going to change things. I ask that of those like grim repa, aldente and others on this thread alone who are criticising my views and opinions, but not offering suggestions of their own.
Finally, to reply to Desk-Pilot:
Quote:
Lets be realistic - if Ryanair do decide to close Luton Flybe, Easy and a raft of other airlines will be utterly delighted to expand into the void O'Leary leaves and you will all get jobs with airlines that believe in union recognition and don't believe in intimidating their workforce.
Realistic? I'd call that incredibly naive. Surely you don't think MOL will leave Luton and scrap those routes? Ryanair will simply take on more cadets and eastern European captains based elsewhere in Europe and fly into Luton, and where necessary fly a 'W' leg to cover those routes.
This comment will probably see me called selfish, however I am not a WWII hero (to continue a previous analogy), but I am not prepared to lose either my life in England to be based in Europe somewhere for the cause - especially when there is NO ANSWERS BEING GIVEN TO ME EXPLAINING HOW MY SACRIFICE WILL CHANGE A THING IN RYANAIR!
Grim Repa - i am certainly not a management stooge that i can assure you.
If you vote Balpa and I loose my job, I take it I can count on you / Balpa / other "pro-union" pilots to pay my salary, mortage, other expenses??
As such an avid supporter of Balpa - tell me - if you lost your job would you still be??? Ive noticed no-one has actually answered this question on here yet.
You have been moaning about the state of Ryanair since October 2004 (based on your profile) in 5 years if you dislike the company so much WHY HAVN'T YOU LEFT???
Even just over a year ago there were ample jobs all over the world not just Europe.
Why, if FR is so bad, have you continued to stay??
I can't believe that people are being threatened with the sack for wanting union recognition.
Let this happen and the workforce will be wide open for anything that management decide to do. This is not about BALPA recognition anymore - it much much more important than that.
If you can't see that - you really will get all you deserve, and it will probably be a P45; BALPA recognition or not.
There surely is a law that prevents employers threatening staff with the sack for something as fundamental as union recognition??
real slim shady - taking up the mantle and showing his true management colours now in place of LHC,who it seems these days is incapable of coherent or latin post,but favours posts anti - anyone who might offend his pin up "mick the mad mullah from mullingar".
In true ryanair style slim "pickings" plucks spurious figures from the air,adds 2 and 2 together getting 3 and tries to use them in his union busting idiotic posts.
also in true management union busting style he lists off job losses and tries pathetically to equate them with balpas fight for dignity and respect,being a possible cause for ryanair managements continued threats and intimidation about closing bases and firing pilots for exercising their human rights to association,representation and protection in the workplace.
slim don't try and brow beat us with your pathetic attempts to be the union buster trainee.you should know that dignity and respect,if you had any would show tyou that pilots are intelligent and can see through your tactics management have brainwashed into you.
school report:slim tries hard but seems to be distracted by the class bully.they are quickly becoming friends though.slim despite being a nice little boy would do well to use his own iniative any not rely on others to do his thinking for him.in mathematics he progresses well and is quick to answer,but most of the time with the incorrect answer.with time he will get the confidence to be his own person and remember that others in the class who have their hands up when asked a question,can think for themselves also.must try harder.
You can be as personally rude or abusive or sarcastic as you wish towards me, Leo or any other FR pilot who disagrees with this pointless, mis-guided and ill-timed recognition campaign.
What you and your acolytes plainly cannot do is to answer the simple questions put to you, and BALPA, by bonglebear, CommandB, myself and others.
Now stop being obtuse, muddying the waters with smug personal attacks and simply answer the question Bongle asked!!
Quote:
Guys I'm banging my head against a brick wall here.
I keep asking for one thing. Please answer it.
How are BALPA going to help our conditions? How are they going to make management listen and act when they don't have to?
commandb - why should i run away?because i am pro union,pro pilot and pro career.you will be gone long before i will buddy.You just don't get it YET,we are balpa,balpa is us.Union recognition is the first step to a career in aviation,with out it you are a part time seasonal worker with very little rights and no protection.
Stop slagging each other off and answer one simple question. I can't tell you how annoying this is.
HOW ARE BALPA GOING TO MAKE THINGS BETTER AT RYANAIR WHEN MOL DOESN'T HAVE TO DO ANYTHING BALPA ASK?
Please just answer the question. I know you think your responses are really witty and amusing but they aren't making me vote yes and I believe that is your real goal here.
This is the last time I'm going to make this request, then I'm going to give it an hour and if there is still no answer (and no reply to my PM) then I'm sending Capt. L***** an email that says NO.
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