Terms and EndearmentThe forum the beancounters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work. Let others in the industry make educated choices on where the grass is less brown! Scheduled, charter or contract -
With 36+ years in this industry maybe you are approaching the Ryanair retirement age. With this in mind I can understand why you prefer to be on the side of the fence that terms and condition will be negotiated lower and lower year on year. The alternative might require some short term pain, and you'll have very little time to benefit from the gain.
Not a personal attack on you, just an observation of your circumstances.
Passenger numbers are up 13% this month year on year.
With the current management it will never be a good time to try and improve our conditions. As they have stated many times that they will not negotiate with it's Pilots.
a recruitment ban should be put on ryanair to start demonstrating to the entire world that brk contracts are simply not acceptable for the sake of every single individual worldwide.
brk pilots are regarded simply as "disposable object" by the airline, this is the way i felt when i was there. and i would have felt exactly the same if i had moved to a permanent ryanair contract. makes me
and do not blame the poor cadets, they have no idea of collective bargaining and trade unions.they can only see the bright side of that shining new 737 in their first 12 months of working experience.
most of people here forget what trade unions have done (just positive) in their very long history to improve employees working terms!
i am not referring to Marxism, but have to admit that trade unions always improved working conditions after slavism.
a recruitment ban should be lifted also for the poor/ignorant cabin crew that ryanair have.
Pity you did not read my posts correctly, as I don't work for RYR.
EPR SET.
In the old days unions did some good, but BALPA lost their way by forgetting there were more pilots out there than BA.
They have only achieved much in the climate of proper trust, respect and a two way street.
Look at what is happening now, not just in RYR, BA, or the charter airlines.
Unions convince people they can improve things, but with confrontational management it is often impossible without Strike action.
It would take too long to explain my dealings with BALPA and this is not the place to do so.
Just let me say that they have let down more people than they have helped, and cost them 1% of salary per year.
They promise what they cannot realistically provide to encourage members and fill their coffers.
i still believe that ryanair is such a big monster, leader in "pure" ,and not-so-well payed-anymore ,slavism,lying to death to all employees and passengers, that this time BALPA will put lots of efforts to fight the sick management of MOL and cronies.
People in glass gin palaces shouldn't throw stones.
Let BALPA put its' own house in order, spend less on dining, travel and fine wines, guarantee that pilots will have legal protection, regardless of whether BALPA think they have a case or not, with their own choice of legal team, cut the General Secretary's package to the same as a Ryanair Captain ( £50K fair Vexed?) and then they might have a chink of an opportunity to put a case to the pilots.
I am not sure how BALPA arrange their pay tiers. I am not sure it is my business to say one way or the other. If I don't like it I could always pull my membership.
If you are going to make that argument, which sorry, in my opinion is a bit immature - why can't MOLs be adjusted down, since he is the one who ultimately oversaw the massive losses last year?
Slightly off topic but with the BA thing - why should the staff have to take the pay cuts when the boss gets £750k a year. If he quartered his wages they'd be more willing to talk I bet. Its all to do with what we think is fair play or not.
TRSS - do you think its fair that pilot's wages get reduced year on year, even during times of massive profits? Is it fair that cadets don't get to choose which contract they get, and may have to face the possibilty of a forced (unpaid) month off sometimes within very little time inbetween to save up? Is it fair that we have to change our licences in our own time and expense when its the company who wants them brought in? Is it fair that standbys go from 8 hours to 12 without consultation? That standbys are given on first and last days in direct violation of the conditions in which they were brought in? That all of a sudden HOTAC is not provided for sims, and a 6th working day can just be bolted onto your week if you've got a sim? Do you consider it fair that command upgrades are moved away from their home base, told there are no positions back home, but obviously are since DECs are getting those places? Surely you wouldn't like that given your vehemency on possibly moving base?
These are the sort of things BALPA wants to see modiified. No decrease in pay without consultation, a better leave system, a fairer option of contracts for all, fairer distribution on pilots, a tighter reign on the terms set out in the contracts and agreements i.e. not arbitarilly bringing in new terms or ignoring inconvenient ones.
The only way I can see this being an expense for the company is that they have to get their house in order, stop making pilots pick up the tab for things they want to bring in!
slim - you are sounding more and more like the ryanair propoganda union busting maching day after day.use your own iniative and formulate your own thoughts.we have heard all your mol soundbites again and again.the soundbites which are so blatantly put together by the union busters from the states that ryanair has on it's books.why not pay your employees fair terms and conditions out of the hundreds of thousands paid to the union busters.
heres a novel idea,cut ryanairs ceo package to that of a ryanair captain and level the playing field.will never happen,king molly is happy to sit in his ivory tower and direct his henchmen to do his dirty work.that is why he hires union busters and sends his minnions to perjure themselves in court.he is a COWARD
of the highest order and those that follow his ethic are proven idiots.
hurry home lest (abusing) try extra curricular dissuation techniques on those fine upstanding pilots at your base.
The pro BALPA lot want to get the union in to stop their T&C being further reduced, The anti BALPA lot want to keep them out to stop their T& C being further reduced. The bottom line is both camps are stuffed, MOL has your (lack off) balls in his hand and he will squeeze until your are working for nothing.
Forget BALPA, get a group together and go and see Bob Crowe of the RMT (rail, maritime& transport) he is the suitable anti matter to deal with MOL
Full credit to MOL for realisng that most pilots do what they do out of pride and has such can be abused
For the CC on here, the second P in PPRuNe stands for pilots, you no nothing or at best very little of the work/effort/cost that goes into getting the first P of PPRuNe.
Most CC at Ryanair have been suckered into the same dream that a number of cadets are in
If MOL stays much longer then your all it will end in tears or some pilot deep in debt with a wife in another country with another man will think i have had enough and 180+ 0.99p ticket holders will be dead, game over
The only thing going for BALPA here is that MOL doesn't want them, sooner or later he will upset some Eastern European gang boss and his number will be up
I'd wondered what it was that had put a wild hair up the arse of BLAPA. Given their lethargic history and slovenly instincts, BLAPA's actions in pursuit of Ryanair could be described as rather like Robbie Coltrane running the four-minute mile! Aha, but what's this? The smoking gun.
In case you, too, had wondered why it was that the historical inertia of BLAPA, when it comes to matters Ryanair, has recently been eclipsed by an indelicate haste for recognition, here, from a recent newsletter, is their raisons d'état; the killer app.
Quote:
A change in Government could see the legislation for recognition wiped
out and Ryanair’s increased seasonal work will probably mean fewer
pilots are needed to work under a permanent contract.
Aha, so that's what's bothering BLAPA. In that case, I say bring on the Tories. Someone should alert that nice old Etonian with a fondness for coke, that BLAPA are circling the drain. Hurrah!
Maybe you have not seen it,leo horses ass,but the truth is outing here.the truth about ryanairs union busting tactics,threats,bullying and intimidation!the blatant abuse of it employees and the prevention of human beings their rights to associate and right to free speech.
For those Ryanair pilots who don't want Balpa recognition and for that reason did'nt register themselves with Balpa (Ballot on Balpa internet site) i suggest that you personally contact Balpa to make a statement that you, on wathever base you might be at, do NOT want a recognition on your base and that your vote is a NO.
I did that on an e-mail (adress is on Balpas homepage, as I just learned that I am not allowed to print it here) requesting a confirmation that the e-mail had been recieved and read.
If the case is that 10% on your base has requested recognition, maybe your vote this way will change that percentage of the voters, worth a try anyway.
Last edited by UK Viking : 7th July 2009 at 13:56.
For the CC on here, the second P in PPRuNe stands for pilots, you no nothing or at best very little of the work/effort/cost that goes into getting the first P of PPRuNe.
Who died and made you God of PPRuNe? That is THE most arrogant statement i have ever seen in my working life. Are you sure you passed your last CRMS on your own or did you need a little help/push (maybe your CC colleagues helped you out and let you take a peek at their exam sheet?)
At least I know how to spell, and i never use text speak.
I was going to call you an idiot, but i won't.
I'm sure you are. I can't fly an airplane at all.
However If you must go down that road, i'm sure i know what to do, should a pax have a say, heart attack, better than you. Same goes for all the other emergency situations that may happen in the cabin.
So you stick to what you (maybe?) do best and i'll stick to what i do best at work. No need to parade your skills or stripes, i fully understand and respect the years, money and study you put into your career.
How very unpleasant and tedious this seasonal event has become, much like the Ryanair threads of late 2008, and the thread of early 2008, and the thread of late 2007, in fact right back to the birth of PPRuNe! Polarised and opposite views are written by the same people again and again and again and again.
Pathetic.
Result: the same as always...........no progress in either direction, status quo reigns and still MOL's door hasn't been kicked in by any union, nor will it ever be.
you no nothing or at best very little of the work/effort/cost that goes into getting the first P of PPRuNe.
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