Terms and EndearmentThe forum the beancounters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work. Let others in the industry make educated choices on where the grass is less brown! Scheduled, charter or contract -
Grim, not arguing with you buddy.
Just dont know why you've not left 5 years ago if you hate it that much. And you've still not answered that question...?
As for my "immature and irrational reckoning" - all I can say is that it is a difference of opinion between us. Ive put just some my points across for not wanting Balpa, just as you have for wanting Balpa. I may say that I find your opinion "immature and irrational." However I can look outside the box (and my base, thank you) and understand people are intitled to their own opinions. Whereas you jump on anyone who disagrees with you with a barrage of petulent abuse.
Well you do not intimidate me, call me what you like I can assure you it wont hurt!
How many FR flights operate from Stansted on a daily basis? Do those people who think it would be feasible to 'close all UK bases' simply to prevent BALPA recognition really believe it would be possible to run the airline only with non-UK pilots and no UK bases?
Reading these comments, I must say how very sad it is to see a company literally at war with its professional crews. If more passengers were aware of this situation I think they'd think twice before booking with FR (the pre-flight welcome from the flight deck on my last FR flight - 'thank you for choosing Ryanair' didn't reveal all that much about what lurks beneath).
But then again, the debate takes place on a public website such as this, for everyone to see.
Yes sir, one of them. I of course understand if a base isnt making money it would be closed however my base is doing very well.
We have been told - as have other bases - that the base will be closed to stop the spread of unions...etc. If Ryanair were to close all the UK bases, Balpa having recognition will effectively be rendered useless so I guess this is why MOL will do it. Look to be honest, nothing anyone says on here will change peoples minds about the whole situation. If you are of anti or pro union - PPRuNe isnt going to change that!
Ive said all I wanted to say on this whole matter on here now.
Lets see what happens over the next few months!
commandb - i cannot recall saying i hate working in ryanair,correct me if i am wrong.why should i run away?i believe that it is better to fight and strive,than leave and let other make the sacrifice or do the work i can do.no martyrdom intended.if i see a bully in the park,i do not turn away.why would i?as i have said before,i will be here long after many of the management stooges.i will fight and i have indeed already won,i do not FEAR the UNION BUSTER!!!
i do not intend to intimidate you,quite the contrary.i wish you to keep posting as you are the one of the greatest advertisements for union recognition along with slim/abusing.
where is the evidence of mass base closures and job losses in ryanair related to union recognition?
We have been told - as have other bases - that the base will be closed to stop the spread of unions...etc. If Ryanair were to close all the UK bases, Balpa having recognition will effectively be rendered useless so I guess this is why MOL will do it.
That is unbelievable
I knew that Ryanair were lacking in morals, but this is beyond the pale. You are correct that PPRuNe will never change the juggernaut that is Ryanair management, but they are obviously terrified of union recognition. Ever stopped to wonder why?
The problem is other companies will be watching to see if they get off with this, and if they do you can be sure that other companies will follow suit.
Your management has already worked hard on the divide and conquer tactics, but don't you think that it is a rather odd company that threatens to close profitable bases just because the workforce asks for a legal right?
The problem I can see is that if Ryanair are allowed to do this then it has ramifications throughout the European aviation industry. Think outside the box, guys.
To "Mr and Mrs Ryanair", aka The Real Slim Shady and Abusing the Sky :-
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What's "right" in my opinion is that people (a handful of pilots in this case) who are pro BALPA, should stop being selfish and start thinking seriously about the impact and consequences the BALPA unionization WILL have on other people's lives; CC's, engineers, people on ground duties...
and
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There is a over "i vote for NO BALPA recognition" 90% vote in EMA base.
If as you say, only a handful of pilots want BALPA at your base, and 90% are going to vote no, then what on earth are you afraid of ? !!! As someone has already said, let them have the vote, then it can be put to bed and forgotten about.
ATS, your posts are now bordering on the hysterical !(bricks through windows etc). If what you say about lack of support is true, then you have nothing to worry about. So why are you and hubby so wound up ?!
You work for Ryanair, your husband works for Ryanair, Ryanair pays your mortgage and your social life revolves round cabin crew, ground staff and engineer friends in your cosy little existence at EMA. Meanwhile you're never off PPRuNe (talking about Ryanair of course !)
Have you ever thought of broadening your horizons a bit more ?
PS Good luck with the vote, from what you say you have nothing to fear ......
PPS Slim you still haven't answered a question I posted a while back asking you to explain :-
"The campaign only asks for dignity and respect - why is Ryanair putting a cost on or a penalty for treating its employees better?"
Shame on you MOL, stop this slavery in aviation. How do you expect me to live on my £90,000 a year, and you are working me to death on my 5 on 4 off.
My full month's holiday, plus two 13 day breaks a year are also making it verry dificult to take the family away. Shame on you!
I can't wait for BALPA to get involved and screw it all up for us "NOT"
Ballsout, you are absolutely right, it is a shame, and what about the allowances and the pension, I would rather loose them and get the good old 5/3 roster back.
Maybe Balpa will be able to drag us back to these horrible conditions in a few years time ? (Fee only about 5-600 £ a year)
What i do in my spare time (be that Ppruning or doing the washing) is none of your business.
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As someone has already said, let them have the vote, then it can be put to bed and forgotten about.
I was one of the people who said that too.
As me and danyalliga have said before (note he does not agree with what i think nor do i agree with what he thinks about the BALPA involvement in FR), people said what they had to say, brought in facts (as they see them), numbers, scenarios and so on.
Now all we can do is wait and see what happens.
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ATS, your posts are now bordering on the hysterical !(bricks through windows etc). If what you say about lack of support is true, then you have nothing to worry about. So why are you and hubby so wound up ?!
Please read the said post again and read between the lines, it's called sarcasm.
Let me get this right: so if people (likes of myself) do not agree with what other people say (like yourself, mr repa and danyalliga) then they are "wound up"? Or classed as "management" as mr repa believes whenever someone doesn't agree with his views?
Please, no more BALPA is going to do this, that and the other, no more gloryfying BALPA. I listened, read rather what you had to say and i get it, you think BALPA is good for us. I think just the oposite.
Should we wait and see then?
EPR, the net you take home every month is representing more than 90 K if you compare to any other salaries in the UK, and you are only working at the most 15 - 18 days a month on a 5/4 basis.
The company simply will not deal with BALPA: BALPA has no part to play in the commercial decisions made by the company management.
That said, initial explorations indicate that the company may be prepared to recognise and negotiate with a different association which is more benign and adopts a less militant stance, working in partnership, rather than against the company.
The company has not put a cost on treating it's employee's better: the majority of the people I speak with are very content with the fundamentals of the current term's and conditions.
Improvements such as a simplified base transfer bidding system, a web based leave bid system with graphical display of available leave at each base and a web based roster swap system for each base have been the main "improvements" people have suggested.
We don't want crew meals; we don't want artificial limits placed on our EU Ops flying hours; we don't want our 5 / 4 roster changed; we don't want some outside agency negotiating pay and conditions on our behalf.
We don't want through the night flying or night stops: we are paid better than the vast majority of airlines and our jobs are secure.
Simples!
WE are having a vote, and the pilots are overwhelmingly rejecting the application for recognition. That's the pilots, not union members, not the BALPA pilot community, but the pilots, be they, or be they not, members of BALPA, IALPA or the IPA.
BALPA, however, don't accept that: they want to engage with the BALPA pilot community exclusively.
On the other hand, we take a more inclusive stance: everyone can be "engaged", everyone can vote and they can vote according to their opinions and conscience.
BALPA will not get recognition: not at EMA, not at PIK, not at LTN or anywhere else. They see the FR pilots as an income stream to fund their dining and C class travel to international bunfights masquerading as conferences. Fortunately, the FR pilot is a canny character who can see through this and doesn't buy the BALPA tub thumpers nebulous claims.
The FR pilot can read the small print and knows that BALPA "legal protection" is discretionary and that commercial products that guarantee support are available.
BALPA has nothing to offer, and indeed, if they persist with this manifestly irresponsible campaign could find that the company throws it's resources behind the pilots, and BALPA, with its puny cash reserves, ceases to exist in its present form and its members have to dig deep into their pockets to pay the legal bills.
Punishing or penalising the pilots? No, backing them with 2 billion + Euro of resources.
UK VIKING
I agree my p60 was well over 90k and 5/4 works well for me.
I 'm not to sure what BALPA want to achieve for us during what is the worst financial crisis since the great depression combined with a pandemic swine flu outbreack which is going to hit aviation very hard in the next few months.
I will quote Martin Levitt in how employees are manipulated with set emotions to take whatever actions the management desire.
"A Union Buster without the atmosphere or climate of FEAR is like working without one leg and one arm, FEAR is essential"
"Employees live on a daily diet that they almost feed on and that daily diet consists of IGNORANCE, FEAR, GREED and EGO"
Does anyone see the similarities to the email in question or some of the posters that are here on PPRuNe? Because I see all these emotions in play on here and especially in the email.
GREED and EGO.. Well EGO is very prevalent in posters of the know it all, I know best kind.
I notice that questions are still not been answered so I will put one of them from another poster up again but there are various others. I also notice that the application of statute which has now been clearly explained and presented is not being questioned which poses questions. The email was either WRONG because of misinterpretation or it was MISLEADING due to a personal agenda? Which is it? Also where did this body of text concerning the 10% test come from in the email to the juncture of decloration?
Here is another posters question;
Quote:
The campaign only asks for dignity and respect - why is Ryanair putting a cost on or a penalty for treating its employees better?
Well EGO is very prevalent in posters of the know it all, I know best kind. 
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