Terms and EndearmentThe forum the beancounters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work. Let others in the industry make educated choices on where the grass is less brown! Scheduled, charter or contract -
there are many frenchmen working in Ryanair, many of them tell me there are no jobs available in France; what should they do then?What does AirFrance mama do for them if they have to migrate abroad for jobs?
Try to keep your views constructive because the solution is not found in avoiding Ryanair or leaving it because there are no alternatives unless AirFrance wants to hire 3000 737 qualified pilots.
What Ryanair pilots need from other european pilots now is SUPPORT because they are fighting a battle that crosses many european borders and affects not only Ireland or the UK but the whole airline business in Europe with around 200 aircraft and 30 bases all across the european continent.
Guys,
Again sorry for the noise, this BiZ_airfrance is just a French pilot so bored that he has nothing else to do but try and make me and my english look bad here... That's sad, but please ignore his messages, he has NOTHING to do with Air France whatsoever.
That will be Level 4 English then I guess ?
Apples and Oranges, of course Air France pay for everything, they are a traditional formerly state subsidised flag carrier, Ryanair are a bunch of cheap skates (now which part of low cost didn't you understand ? )
But, how many pilots do AF recruit in a year versus how many aspiring young men & women make themselves available. By all means be happy AF paid for everything including giving you a salary at a time you were not even productive, but don't be surprised or criticise a low cost base company when they save (or even make money ) on pilot training. If the individuals involved were happy to wait for that AF/BA job to come along and spent some time instead doing something else like Turboprop F/O or instructor, the system wouldn't milk them as it does now. However, even these jobs are in very short supply, and for newbees RYR is fast becoming the only show in town. Because of this you shouldn't be so quick to criticise those who have taken on vast debt to pay their way, they din't have much choice, and do you really think a businessman of the acumen and mentality of MOL would pass up on the opportunity to profit from the situation. I don't think you really understand the big bad world outside of your sheltered existence. I am very happy for you. . . really I am, but try and have more understanding of the real world out there that others are forced to live & work in, maybe in 20 years it might be the same for you ? it is what Mr Sarkozy would dream , non ?
As a first time poster on this forum,but a long time reader,i feel its time to express my feelings regarding the latest base freeze/possible reduncies memo issued today.Im still not sure if BALPA recognition is a good thing,over the last few months i have changed my mind on a daily basis,flying with different captains,who have a different outlook and idea about what it would mean,be it for or against recognition.
However after todays memo,im starting to think this whole thing could be a complete waste of time,will BALPA get in,i dont think so.so this whole thing has just made the conditions even worse,not better!!
Now im getting realy pi**ed off,fair enough,talk of BALPA is great,everyone gets angy,great...but when it starts to effect my personal life well then its going too far,at the end of the day we only get one shot at life,i enjoy 5-4,the money is good,and i dont live for work,i work to live,i have better things to do on my days off than worry about flying etc.i have a wife that doesnt live here,i commute on my days off,im also close to my required command upgrade hours.Now i cannot get the base in the uk i have requested,which is nearer home,i wont get a shot at my command,so my potntial earnings are lost and my wife now hates me and my job!!
I feel that the guys that are spearheading this campaign havent really the same 'issues' as myself,and others,a lowly FO.These are captains,whos familys are close by,they already get double my salary,so a base freeze and an upgrade ban doesnt bother them!!ridiculous!!
At this stage of the game i dont give a damn what happens,things cant get that much worse........oh yeah,loss of allowance and 5-2......i think i will be heading for a divorce....
You talk about dignity and respect,what about the loss of quality of life!!thats more important to me guys!
As other people have commented of other airlines,what happens if/when BALPA gets in?are you telling me that its going to change for the better overnight?i dont think so,to the managment this is a game,they are willing to close bases,remove aircraft,in effect,they are willing to lose money in order to prove a point and to win the 'game',they will never work with a union!
I know im probably going to get a lot of flack from some people on here,especially being a 'first timer' but hey,its my view,and this is what PPRuNe is for isnt it?
Backwardsman, good post. What we do know is that if BALPA comes in we will (in the UK)
1. Loose our 5000 (Cpt) allowances 2500 (FOs)
2. Go to a 5-2/5-3 roster
3. No transfers, no CU upgrades no nothing for good
4. Loss of jobs at closed down bases. Most likely having to quit Ryanair or move to a new base in the continent on the new T&Cs. Not good either.
So what is BALPA going to do if they get in?? Are they going to pay us our 5000 allowances?? Are they going to fight to keep our 5-4?
We all know the answer. No. Once they are in, nothing is going to happen! They can call as many meeting they want, which in return FR will tell them to shove it everytime. FACT. Look how well RPA did in Ireland.
Guys, voting for BALPA is only going to cost you your job (maybe), make you have a pay cut and be put on a 5-2 roster with FO progression grinding down to a halt. The gun is in our hand, its up to us not to shoot ourselves. Think about it.
BALPA isn't a solution - it's just a tool you can use. If you use it right, it'll do the job. But BALPA, like any union, is only as strong as the will of its members. So it looks like MOL has nothing to worry about, with you bunch of spineless loosers
Come on guys. Wake up. Biz Airfrance is a poor Peter Sellers imitator. He might even be Borat on a new wind up. Not even a French peasant would write english like that. Ignore him.
ZeBedie, a tool that will take years and years to get anything fixed. Better off to do it ourselves would you not agree?? Spineless?? No just smarter than you.
Backwardsman- Fair enough but perhaps you are failing to see the problem of employment from a Captains' point of view?
Whilst I sympathise with your current situation do you think that I have not been there myself? Along with hundreds of others? Do you honestly think that whomever is involved in the campaign at a high level has not considered and discussed chaps exactly like yourself?
We are closing in on an application/ballot or wherever the process is at but Ryanair are already bullying, threatening and implementing new policy deliberately designed to make your/my life as miserable as possible.
What about the chap one step behind you? What about the one behind him and so on... Do you not want to help them? Do you want to help me?
Next time you fly ask you colleague how he/she made it to the left seat, what he or she had to sacrifice, what he or she would like from their career?
Balpa/Ryanair pilots have not stitched you in any way whatsoever - Ryanair have with their infantile perspective on management.
I too sympathise with the new guys but you have to ask yourself the following. Over the last years (the good ones) Management have taken much away from pilots' T & Cs. This was without any negotiation and whilst making a million pounds a day. The next years are going to be tough so who knows what is next to go. Each generation of Captain has worse T & Cs than the last so what will it be for the new guys in 3 years unless they make a stand now? There needs to be a clear structure for negotiation so that FR can be a place to build a career.
Its just a shame that FR are fighting it. At the end of the day, everyone wants the company to be profitable.
was mighty AirFrance that good as it is to you today when it all started?
I don't think so and your unions have worked hard for you to have the T&C you can enjoy today.
And that's what we are talking about here now, Ryanair is only 10 years old and just like a teenager it has to grow up and become an adult.
And to do that we don't need to hear how good you are but we need your support in fighting our cause so that the companies like your can become the model and not Ryanair as it is today.
In Air France, we have a a better filiere (?), we are recruit(ing) like cadets with no aeronautique (aeronautical) experience, then we do the cpl, ir, mcc, atpl theoric, and we reach a good level (IN ENGLISH?). then we go in (to) QT (=Type rating) a320. We have (a) free training and we have (a) salary when (while) study(ing) .
We agree on that, that's (not the main reason) why I wish we fight against (or with) Ryanair to become a normal airline...
Quote:
But of course, selection is more strict than in ryanair.
Come on!, selection are not more strict but different! Do you think you can pass Ryanair selection? just try to make me laugh! (oups, it's already done!)
I think, when I read your words, that you passed the Famous Air France english test! , Do you think you have the ICAO level 4? (no more than 2!)
Quote:
your friends that are french maybe did not have the capacity for be a good Air France CDB, but I do not cry against them.
Unbelievable! I can tell you that lot of AF Captains will not be able to fly with Ryanair for more than a week! But Air France are Hiring French Ryanair pilots!
Quote:
BiZ (cadet) OPL Airbus Air France
This guy doesn't even know that OPL isn't an english word (That means F/O).
I am fully sorry for this asshol, He is not representative of the French pilots, don't take his words in account!
Ryanair Pilots, please accept Air France Capt's humble Apologies !!!
Hello all,
I am presently flying for Air France, as an A320 Cpt.
I have come accross the different postings by "BIZ_airfrance" who portraits himself as an Air France Cadet.
The contents of his posts, both through form and meaning are an embarrassment to the entire Air France pilots corporation...
Let me express to all of you our deepest apologies for the rantings of this unchecked individual !
Let me also express my SERIOUS DOUBTS as to the veracity of his claim to be an F/O at AF. Especially a Cadet, as they now have very high standards for their English tests.
I agree it has not always been the case in our beloved company, but the lessons of the past have been learned, and the "new" (last 10-15 years) recruits ALL have a very good grasp on the English language.
So, sorry about that folks !
Now, about the strike:
His situation (if he really is at AF) is the fruit of years of union fighting. How dare he be against anyone in the industry trying to improve his working conditions that way (often, the only way ! ! )
@ BIZ-Airfrance:
Arrête tes conneries, tu nous fait honte ! ! Si tu es vraiment de la boite, va faire des stages d'anglais !
Il existe une fraternité des pilotes, même d'autres compagnies...
To cut a long story short, the individual behind "BiZ_Airfrance" is someone who has some sort of gripe against another member of the forum (BiZ2000). I can assure you BiZ_Airfrance DOES NOT work for Air France, and has nothing to with Air France whatsoever. So please stop yourselves getting wound up by this guy.
He sounds a bit like the infamous "nuageblanc".
Anything to do with BiZ has nothing to do with Air France.
Biz Air France is obnoxious, boastful, has a cr@p english, ON PURPOSE, so as to make people at Air France look so. He wants to make pilots from all horizons feel as if AF pilots despise the rest of the world which is so untrue !!!
This guy is mentally ill. He's named himself the name of an AF pilot who signs up as "BiZ" on the PPRuNe's French equivalent, Radiocockpit where he calls him "bizette" which translates fairly correctly as "sissie" and he maintains a constant and high level of agressiveness towards him.
"BiZ Air France" messages are laughable if they were not that degrading for the French "Biz" and for Air France pilots in general.
Sorry for the disturbance. This is purely French turmoil exported to the world. You guys should not be spattered with all this shit.
Last edited by AF jockey : 18th June 2009 at 12:11.
state subsidised flag carrier, Ryanair are a bunch of cheap skates (now which part of low cost didn't you understand ? )
) on pilot training. If the individuals involved were happy to wait for that AF/BA job to come along and spent some time instead doing something else like Turboprop F/O or instructor, the system wouldn't milk them as it does now. However, even these jobs are in very short supply, and for newbees RYR is fast becoming the only show in town. Because of this you shouldn't be so quick to criticise those who have taken on vast debt to pay their way, they din't have much choice, and do you really think a businessman of the acumen and mentality of MOL would pass up on the opportunity to profit from the situation. I don't think you really understand the big bad world outside of your sheltered existence. I am very happy for you. . . really I am, but try and have more understanding of the real world out there that others are forced to live & work in, maybe in 20 years it might be the same for you ? 
it is what Mr Sarkozy would dream , non ? 
, Do you think you have the ICAO level 4? (no more than 2!)
Linear Mode
