Terms and EndearmentThe forum the beancounters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work. Let others in the industry make educated choices on where the grass is less brown! Scheduled, charter or contract -
Ssschmokin
You have 3 major problems !!
Ryanair Management :- who dont have to listen too or action any BALPA recomendations.
Hi Day dreamer. These are good points so here we go: You would be surprised what a determined, organised group of pilots could achieve. If we are impotent, why are the management ranting at us to try to stop us? THEY obviously don't agree with you. See posts above - a work to rule would have a serious effect on the schedule, for example, as RYR more than any other airline I know of runs entirely due to the goodwill of the pilots, and their willingness (now run out) to work ever harder with less and less support to keep to the scheule.
Brookfields Contract Pilots :- Differing T & C's from RYR contracts, How many will support any action which stops them being paid, or just effects RYR pilot's T & C's.
I think that Brookfield pilots are intelligent enough to realise that once RYR management has driven down the permanent staff salaries, they are next! Particularly when the job market is slow such as today. Also, when you have few employment rights as a contractor, someone to fight your corner with any legal mishaps becomes even more important, no? BTW a work to rule for example wouldn't affect anyone's pay.....
Foreign Based Pilots :- Who can work rotations from outside the UK without reducing the schedule significantly.
No they can't. This is one of the big whoppers management tell. Think about it, airports that have enough business to make early departures and late arrivals viable become bases. Ryanair doesn't miss a trick on this sort of stuff - if a potential base is available, it would already be utilised. What are they going to do, fly in empty aircraft to run early services from UK bases, or damage the business in some other way by shutting viable bases. The mangement are in post to grow the business, not damage it and the shareholders would have something to say on this matter for sure. If a UK base was to shut, it would be because it is not running profitably, and a few quid on pilot salaries would not change that either way. The management, however, would try and blame it on the pilots!
Hope this makes sense, I am a couple of beers to the good!!!
If Ryanair management know they can treat their pilots like shit, what use would a union realistically do? The pilots going on an actual strike seems too far fetched. Could MOL replace his pilots (including more senior pilots) quickly if he needed? Even though i hate to admit it- bringing in new first officers every 6 months and booting out the ones with 500 hours is brilliant business! The pilot wage bill at Ryanair must be insignificant compared to other airlines. Why would MOL and Ryanair stop this dirty tactic? It does not seem illegal- plus I am sure the European commission would not give a shit as well, they probably think they have bigger problems to solve, how far wrong am i? Look forward to your replies guys!
Cptdivz - If Mol could get away with it, I reckon he would. He is no respecter of people.
I don't believe your post to be genuine, It smacks of a carefully veiled threat aimed at scaring junior F/O's.
But lets play along.
It won't happen, nobody would hand over the vast sum of money for training as soon as they realise people are being booted out at 500 hours. If MOL could he would. There is no loyalty from him, he always does what he thinks he can "get away with"
Then their is training, it takes time and effort from many to indoctrinate into FR SOP's.
In days of limited credit and a shiny new type rating academy, lets see how far that would get him. not very
Mr Fred I assure you the post is genuine! I am just a uni student who is a wanabe like the rest of the lot. Out of interest though-what makes you think I am an impostor?
Cptdivz this is the only reply you will get, such posts as yours are all to common. in making disguised suggestions, designed to initimidate and scare people.
If you are a wannabe at Uni then what hope is there for you, you want to fly aircraft as a professional and this is your suggestion? Its brilliant business?
What do you think should be the primary driving force in aviation? let me tell you it should be safety.
What is the real primary driving force in aviation? it is money.
Your suggestion latches onto the second with no regard of the first. and in such you show yourself to have little clue in the profession you profess to join.
Another very plain and simple truth, pilots are people, not robots, they have spent years and time in training to reach a competent grade. And then from that point onwards, experience is fundamental to safety.
"Why don't taxi firms just employ cheaper 17 year olds who've just passed their driving tests"?
Quote:
Even though i hate to admit it- bringing in new first officers every 6 months and booting out the ones with 500 hours is brilliant business!
It isn't brilliant business it is very poor business and short sighted, to make decisons based purely on profit, is very dangerous territory, each one increases, the risks of an incident.
For sure it happens as some Airline managers are only interested in bottom line at any cost.
How far do you want to stretch a piece of elastic, one day it will snap.
On a purely industry case, lowering the experience gradient for profit in no way enhances safety, anyone who would make such a suggestion is either clueless or management.
From a human point, I hope I never bump into someone who flys aircraft who thinks such behaviour, in "booting out" capable and growing F/O's (with huge financial and personal debt to get there), purely for profit and lowering the experince gradient is OK......... well how could any non manager, who say they seek to do the job, make such a callous suggestion?
CptDivz, a strike is not far fetched, (though never desirable), it comes about when unscrupulous employers do things. It is a collective decision, made only after a hostile management refuses to acknowledge reasonable protocol. Or to make unilateral decsions such as the one you put forward. In such circumstances it is often done as a last resort.
If there was EVER an airline at any time in history that needs a union the most it is Ryanair. And it is for more than just pay and perks, Ryanair commercial bosses are great at amassing money, they have limited people managing skills, its all about money, no interest in how decisions and basing inflexibility affect peoples family lives, only money, no grasp on how ruthless and unilateral descisions can affect a pilot physically or psycologically . only bullying behaviour (as per the roulette memo) control mechanisms and money.
One of the managers said at an anti union meeting, "we don't run it like an airline but like a business" dangerous ground indeed.
So now there's no need to worry about what they will do if we get union recognition because they're going to shaft us anyway. So we have nothing to lose!!!!
Dear Ladies and Gentlemen,
We have recently completed a review of our UK growth plans. This review has been prompted by
deteriorating market conditions including (a) the weakness of sterling, (b) falling UK fares and yields, (c) the
recession reducing discretionary spend on travel and (d) the ridiculous £10 Government tourist tax, making
the UK' (particularly regional bases) expensive and unattractive to inbound tourists who can find much better
value elsewhere in Europe.
There is now a serious question mark over the viability of some of our UK regional bases and whether we
further invest or cut back in the UK. The recent BALPA recognition campaign (which could not be more ill
timed or stupid) adds to this uncertainty in the current loss making environment in the UK.
In order to reduce trading losses in the UK market we have taken a business decision to temporarily freeze all
growth at UK Bases with immediate effect. We will now concentrate all of our growth elsewhere in Europe,
where the business environment, economic sentiment and fares are better than the UK (for example the
Belgian and Dutch Governments have recently repealed their travel taxes). All Pilot transfers in and out of
the UK will cease from today, all Pilot promotions including command upgrades will be frozen with
immediate effect. A review of this freeze of UK bases will not take place until the end of 2009 and
depending on how the market develops (most importantly whether the UK £10 tax remains in place)
and this will determine whether the freeze is lifted or extended for another period until the UK market
shows some signs of recovery. Any such review may also take account of other peripheral issues such as
the continuation or otherwise of the BALPA campaign.
Our largest base, Stansted has not escaped unscathed and while we have had some success with the recent
Competition Commission ruling on the breakup ofBAA airport monopoly, the BAA is challenging the
Commission's decision in the courts. Our position on Pilot manning levels in Stansted for the winter schedule is
also under review as BAA costs continue to rise. We presently plan to repeat substantial fleet cuts at Stansted this
winter and this may lead to more unpaid leave or even job losses at the Stansted Base. We will keep you updated on
any further changes when this review is complete, what the scale of aircraft reductions (short and or long term) will
be at Stansted, and whether these reductions will necessitate unpaid leave or redundancies.
As usual we will continue to meet with our UK Base ERC's over the coming months to update them on
developments as they occur. This is a very difficult time for all of us in the industry. You may rest assured that
Ryanair will be doing everything we can to minimise job losses and maximise job security - thank you all for your
continued support.
I detect a lot of wannabes on this forum. Ryanair has its problems but most of us had no other choice. Brookfield pilots have a much higher earning potential to Ryanair contracts. If I was on a Ryanair contract I would be up in arms over my T & C. Sadly I don't think BALPA care enough to really get stuck in, just as IALPA didn't. The market will decide our T&C with a possible little nudge from a Flag carrier Union. (BritishAirways Air Line Pilots Assosiation)
BA has great T&C but they are struggling to survive and they, as we have all seen are trying impose up to a months unpaid leave or work on all 40000 employess.
Ryanair pay ok at best but remember there are a lot of mickeymouse companies out there who pay a lot worse. Just look on PPJN
So don't call us scabs unless you have a realistic alternative? and I said realistic!!!!!!
If we went on strike these sorry wannabes with all their uninformed anti-FR BS would be the 1st to take our jobs on half the rates.
however unpaid leave for Ryanair contracts & then announce profits thats BS
Last edited by CaptainJim : 17th June 2009 at 01:12.
Biz keep your questions for you. You're a shame for airfrance and french pilots in general. Not everybody got the chance to join a flag career airline and you need pilots to run other business anyway. We all know that you work for AF "Biz airfrance" and that your are the best, working for the best airline if that's what you want to hear . How do you think AF has acquired such good T&C over the years? Probably because of strong unions and going on strike when necessary. It takes times but things change, even in FR. I do support my FR collegues and I hope they will make this airline one of the best to work for
Well done Ryanair management. You have just handed the commercial advantage to Easyjet, Jet2 and the rest of our competitors in Europe’s biggest market!
All because you can't be bothered or give one to sit down with your employees represented by a professional association. How very sad could you be? Your way or no way it seems. You act like children who can't get their own way and start to spit the dummy out and make threats to your employees.
Easyjet and the others must be rubbing their hands in glee at the way you as management see the need to press the self destruct button and wreck what good work yourselves and us as employees have done over the years.
!
Ryanair T&C
and that your are the best, working for the best airline if that's what you want to hear 
. How do you think AF has acquired such good T&C over the years? Probably because of strong unions and going on strike when necessary. It takes times but things change, even in FR. I do support my FR collegues and I hope they will make this airline one of the best to work for 
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