Terms and EndearmentThe forum the beancounters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work. Let others in the industry make educated choices on where the grass is less brown! Scheduled, charter or contract -
Yes they have to allow a Union.
But they do not have to do anything about it, or negotiate.
They can listen hold meetings and still do nothing.
Then what have you got 1% of salary being paid out for a toothless tiger.
FBF
The title of this thread is "On strike with Ryanair"
BALPA has asked their BA pilots to reduce their pay by up to £200 per week to avoid redundancies
This makes it sound like the BA pilots have no say in things and that Balpa is some third party entity that controls what goes on. Balpa is made up of the pilot membership and it is they who control what goes on (ask Chris Darke!). Any deal put to the BA pilots will have been worked out through the BA CC and not some Balpa employee trying to balance the budget.
LHC, up to the bit of tosh:
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There is, of course, a rather more sinister force at work, when addressing the perplexing question of just why it is that Ryanair attracts such negative attention here. There exists deep within the collective psyche of the British, a deep and abiding resentment of any Irish success.
you did actually make some valid points which would serve you better in a reasoned argument rather than sinking to this level. That seems to be your main hindrance in that you can start off so well and so quite sensible but then oh dear the impulse strikes to either rubbish someone else or accuse an entire nation of hating the Irish. I know it can be tiring trying to fend off the inevitable encroachment of democracy into your world but stick to the reasoned arguments (not the 1% of £100k stuff either!) and more people might listen to the end.
BALPA has asked their BA pilots to reduce their pay by up to £200 per week to avoid redundancies. (Who's T&C's are being eroded now)
Note the above. Balpa has ASKED their pilots to consider this. It will be voted on in a democratic manner. As an aside, I'm a ryan F/O and I would gladly take a BA F/Os remuneration minus 200 quid per week. that would mean I would get about 15,000 a year more than I'm on now.
I have been in the company several years and gone up several grades, but my money has not increased on penny since I was first on the line. Who's T&Cs are being eroded now? Mine, because we haven't got a union to protect them.
In the future I may try for a command. However, the grapevine tells me that Ryanair mangement, without any sort of vote or even mention to THEIR beloved ERCs, has absolutely slaughtered new captain salaries to a figure below what is was in the late 90s. Whose T&Cs are being eroded now? Mine and many other new captains, because we don't have a union.
Are you getting the picture? What is the point of getting a promotion if every year you get poorer? Ryanair pilot pay doesn't get anywhere near matching inflation, or keep up with our natural benchmark company Easy. Whose T&Cs are being eroded now? All of ours, despite the company banking hundreds and hundreds of millions of profit WE EARNED FOR THEM.
Because we haven't got a union. Ryanair pilots have a chance to sort this. Please take the chance, sign the petition, and stand with your colleagues.
I've never been in an airline which would function on scheudle if everyone worked to rule. That means do exactly what your are paid for and report at the times stipulated. Do all the tasks necessary during turnrounds and do not rush. Be methodical. If I understand rightly many airlines have gone to 45mins report, even when there is not dispatch service; i.e everything is do it yourself. I can not believe a flight, or series of flights can be prepared in full in 20 mins, travel to the a/c 5-10mins and prepare it for flight 15 mins. 1 hour was pushing it once they took away a flight prep service. Do guys really do it in 45mins? If you turn and sign on at -45mins I doubt many will depart on time. You would then have to have it in writing that you need to turn up early; or a discussion would be opened as to why your were always late on STD. Simple, 45mins is not enough. Strike is rarely needed to make a point. Doing what you are paid for does not need a union.
Barden: couldn't agree more. Perhaps I should have expanded on my last comment - DD's remark in the context of Ryanair was certainly a day-dream. If terms and conditions go down in Ryr, they stay down. Unless they need new blood, in which case they will promise a select few the earth but of course, screw them over when they aren't so necessary anymore.
It has happened before, it will happen again. But you can stem the tide if you and your colleagues stick together and say what's fair and what isn't, and are prepared to stand up for each other.
Ssschmokin
You have 3 major problems !!
Ryanair Management :- who dont have to listen too or action any BALPA recomendations.
Brookfields Contract Pilots :- Differing T & C's from RYR contracts, How many will support any action which stops them being paid, or just effects RYR pilot's T & C's.
Foreign Based Pilots :- Who can work rotations from outside the UK without reducing the schedule significantly.
You may disrupt things for a while but not long term, 100% support for what you want is practically impossible, especially where people only get paid when they fly, and they like you have bills to pay.
Sitting on the sidelines I cannot see how you can force change when you are trying to get together such a diversified group of pilots.
RYR management appear to have the situation well in hand.
And there are many pilots cadet or otherwise waiting in the wings to take your job.
Fightback Fred - not sure I can agree entirely with your last comments. I know many people who have met the criteria you describe, yet still did not get a place as a cadet. Some of them were quite able too...
(Taken from my first post) ..."Now, because BRK contract FO's don't have a basic salary, and because they don't fly so much, they come fly SICK! to get the money! is that safe?
Why don't we fight against that, and decide of a one common day ON STRIKE!"
RYR Pilots,
Don't you want to fly and to get pay normally... have a basic salary!
Don't you want to get a pension? a social security? advantages because of your "safe" operation as pilot (MOL said) and at the end be recognised as needeed pilots by Ryanair (and MOL ).
Call for sick because you are sick, and not be affraid to do so (basic salary again!!!)!
Does MOL cut off is salary?... If the board directors decide to do so, do you think MOL will stay?
I sign for this airline, but now it's time to make change and stop flying for nought!
What you earn is not what you get! I mean when FRpilot earn 1€, you don't enjoy this 1€ because you have to pay for your pension, social security, parking, etc etc etc...
Other pilots from other airline, mainly enjoy their 1 €: DO U UNDERSTAND THAT?
This "BiZ airfrance" is a fake. The guy behind this has NOTHING to do with Air France whatsoever. I wouldn't want you to think this opinion is shared among Air France employees. This was just a pathetic attempt to make me and my airline look bad here, and use this against me on a french forum. Sorry for the noise, fly safe.
Anyone who criticizes cadet first officers for selling their souls to the devil, misses the most important half of their stories. We only the take the best of them, because experience has taught us that only the best of them will survive the demands of the training department, something that ALL Ryanair cadet pilots should be extremely proud of.
Leo Me 'auld Segoise!
Proof if it were every needed that your claims of being a Ryanair Captain are nothing short of a total fantasy. These would be the Cadets with Level 4 ICAO ELP, wink wink, nudge nudge? Up until 2 years ago the recruitment process was a sick joke, anyone with a pulse was taken, a JAR licence was not even needed such was the depths that were trawled. Why was it that the IAA was the only CAA to hand out JAR validations, why did we need so many Brazilian Skippers?
You continue bleating the same lies despite them being thoroughly debunked:
It doesn´t cost a grand a year for BALPA. Especially not on our salaries. Especially not after 66% tax relief.
The myth that BALPA obtained a pay cut for Thomson Pilots.
The idea of Propaganda is that if you repeat it enough the mantra becomes a truth? I also note that you fail to answer direct questions asked of you. Another sign of a propagandist.
What is this fixation with "Anal insertions". Barely a post goes by when you don't mention that part of the anatomy. There are other kinds of sites for that sort of adult entertainment Leo, although you usually have to pay a monthly subscription.
Carmoisine, you old ratbag. It is, I think, singularly appropriate since this is the orifice from which emerges all BLAPA utterances, including their recent Newsletters, all of which are a study in the devious black art of deceit, falsehood and distortion.
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Leo, although you usually have to pay a monthly subscription.
Perhaps, but I'm sure that those who do get a lot more for their money than anyone dumb enough to hurl yoyos in the direction of BLAPA.
Ná bac le mac an bhacaigh is ní bacfaidh mac an bhacaigh leat.
For all those sitting on the fence, let me just say that if you listen to all the nonsense that your management is telling you ask yourself why are they saying that? It’s coming from an individual that is trying to get a larger bonus if the pilots don’t vote for representation. They keep stirring the pot. Divide and conquer is the tactic. The next tactic is the “ We didn’t know it was so bad, you have our attention now, let’s sit down and talk about it. We don’t need a nasty old union here.” letter that comes out. Those who want to be organized have been hosed enough and those who aren’t sure just haven’t been screwed over enough times to say enough is enough. When it’s done correctly you have a good working relationship with management. Communication is the key. Dump the “us versus them” attitude. Educate yourself about your rights as an employee and then educate your coworkers. Support your leadership and get involved. If it’s done right it’s a win-win.
We’re working on our first contract now and our pilot group is split. But, we still have a fairly good attitude on all sides and we are working to maintain that through discussions and sending out information to all the crews. It's the rank and file pilots that make the union work.
Don't feed the troll that can not answer questions put to him about abuse in the workplace. Don't feed the troll that can not answer questions about a management that is hell bent on bullying its workforce. He chooses not to answer various questions put to him because he can not without losing the argument. He endeavours to play the line that management and him know better than the average line pilot and that you should just fall in and do what you are told. How arrogant! A whole nation bought into that back in the 1940’s and look what happened.
LHN = Ryanair management. It is as simple as that and whether that is directly or indirectly. Management are making a mockery of you LHN. They use you to spout their propaganda such as £1000 a year BALPA subs (lie) and will let you out to dry as they do with BC's, Base supervisors and everyone else who try to climb the greasy pole. Your reputation will be the one that suffers.
Intimidation is happening in Ryanair and is a very real situation for many past, present and future pilots in the company unless pilots make the right decision come vote day.
It will go to vote and pilots will make their voice heard there either way. A free, open and democratic vote on what they want to do. There will be a huge amount of pressure from management because they do not want this to be open and democratic hence the threats. Recognition Roulette
This is plainly because of obvious reasons such as better terms and conditions for pilots.
According to Ryanair management propaganda all BALPA do for pilots is negotiate pay cuts and job losses. If that was true, why would Ryanair management not welcome BALPA and its pilots as it would help on the balance sheet by keeping costs down?
DD - good post. And you are quite right. We will face many challenges, to be sure. What I can say is that the union has the law on its side. Ryanair's behaviour and practices have been (and continue to be)intimadatory and exploitative, and those facts cannot be refuted under the microscope of the judicial system.
But, fighting it out will take time I hear you say - and you would be quite right to say so. It will not be easy or pretty, for sure. There are many challenges to overcome. But do we not bother because it is hard? Do we accept the status quo, even though it is wrong, because the alternative asks us to choose a difficult path at first?
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