Terms and EndearmentThe forum the beancounters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work. Let others in the industry make educated choices on where the grass is less brown! Scheduled, charter or contract -
Ssschmokin1, you did'nt quite understand that I was talking about NETPAY not basic, my Ryanair NETPAY incl. sector pay is semilar or more than my fellow colleges in Easyjet today and not 8000 £ less, they haven't got the same roster (5/4) as we do and they are not expanding as quickly as Ryanair, in other words, you don't get command as fast as in Ryanair, at least for the time being. ( I started in Ryanair i July 2007, bacame commander within 11 months and my fellow colleges in Easy are till first officers even after 3 years with same qualifications)
As for the allowences since 2001, well I don't know about that as I joined Ryanair in 2007, but I tell you, compared to former Maersk Air salary, Ryanair is absolutely paying a fare salary for the time being.
Concerning the cadets, as long as they are willing to take the offer, why should Ryanair refuse ?
Once there are no candidates for the first officer position, the T & A will change and Ryanair has to pay to get their pilots.
We are, bacause of the recession, in a quite bad position as pilots right now, but just wait and see, in about 4 - 5 years time, Ryanair has to improove their T & A to keep the company going.
Does'nt it make any sence that ALL the airlines with the best T & A are struggling to keep the companies going, this is not the past but the future and nothing is going to be as it was, sorry.
BALPA is only struggling to get a Ryanair recognition as they are forced by BA and similar companies to prevent their T & C to go the same way, forget it, we are in 2009 and nothing will ever be as it was, no one should be surprised by the conditions in the airline business right now, if they don't like it, stay away, or opposite accept the conditions or find another way of making your living, I will just say, I like my job with Ryanair very much and no one can convince me not to, it is a free world, lots of jobs in Asia, China, Africa and the middle esat, just go ahead and pick your choise, if Ryanair was that bad, they was'nt doing that well.
Hopefully balpa will never get recognition in Ryanair. and we will see sense and send them packing back to BA. never been a member of Balpa ,never will be and would prefer gay sex then paying them any of my money. the roster is perfect for me work on average 14 days a month, home every night. not been divorced through night stopping and i have a good life. Flown the 747 and the 767 with XXXX and for me this is the best flying i have ever done. the expenses are not that much, a fraction of the cost of being a balpa member. if you don't like it move over and let some one else in.
I was not tied up or forced to sign my contract, so stop the whinging and spread the word, resign from Balpa before its to late
Ryanair pilots may be a lot of things but we are not cheap assholes , I take exception to your description of us .
Perhaps you should have a look at your own (AF) record before you call us cheap assholes . And learn to speak english while you're at it .
If people think RYR pilots are low paid ass..... then they know very little about how Ryanair pilots are paid.
Most pay their taxes just like us mortals, and have good lives with the 5/4 roster.
I am sick and tired of people running down RYR pilots especially the name calling, and unfounded statements.
No I am not a RYR pilot, but with little time to go to retirement, I have seen it all and got the T shirt.
As well as being on the company council for BALPA, and having seen the light been out of their clutches for several years.
If you or anyone thinks a strike will solve things I suggest they think again and look what has happened to unionised airlines in Europe (SABENA for example)
M.O.L. and his managers will just fire the lot of you and recruit even more cadets to fill the gaps, whilst promoting those F/O's with experience or taking DEC's from the many out there unemployed.
Stop running down RYR with every thread that even mentions their name, you know who you are and are getting very boring.
Day_Dreamer, nice post especially considering you dont work for Ryanair. Just because we are having these issues at present doesn't make us better or worse pilots does it? As for our french friend who has decided we are all assholes, I dont think its worthy of a reply. Just because the company is they way they are doesn't make those of us who work there any different.
Ryanair isn't such a bad place to work, the issue is that slowly and steadily they are reducing terms and pay, but quite happily making money in the process. If the company was in financial meltdown, then the steps could perhaps be justified. But the problem is that it will continue to happen and there is nothing in place to stop it. Lots of people saying BALPA isn't the answer, so what is the answer? Just be glad we have a nice roster and still earn more money than being unemployed and let them continue?
RAt5, I believe the pilots were the only staff who "agreed" to a pay deal whereby if the company posted 2 periods of loss the allowances could be chopped.
Lots of people saying BALPA isn't the answer, so what is the answer?
Actually I think you will find a lot of people are saying recognition is the only option.
You can harp on that its ok for you, and if so, good for you. But for many it isn't. In fact it is anything but OK.
Ryanair management have not honoured many contracts or allowed for anything slightly approaching genuine negotiations. They do as they will, dish out what the feel like, regardless of the human cost and expect you to roll over silently everytime.
And thats just the contracts, beyond that there is intimidatory behaviours as the latest bullying memo shows and people are just sick and tired of it.
I don't think this is about BALPA trying to force recognition on the airline against the pilots will. I reckon its that enough pilots have had enough of the constant and ever continuing shafting at every opportunity.
The majority will decide, and if pilots do vote in favour, then MOL, DOB and EW only have themsleves to blame.
BALPA may not be perfect but it by far the lesser of 2 evils.
If the union gets in management threaten to make roster 5/3 with 5/2 six times a year and remove allowance.
Is anyone dumb enough not to realise that is not the next thing they will do regardless of recognition. Look at new Italian bases, 5/3 contracts.
People moving bases getting offered less money, the deterioration merry-go-round will never stop.... NEVER
With recognition you have a chance, without one the future is inevitable. And what they threaten to do to you with a union they will do without one anyway.
well,
If its your first job you don't have much choice if you have the cash....
Ok so you can make some money at Ryan by working your balls off in, what seems, a climate of hostility and intimidation:but as we all know money isn't everything.
I do my best for the company I work for because I feel a part of it, and because of respect for those running it and what we are trying to do.How I would feel and motivate myself at a company where the top man quite clearly detests his staff i have no idea....
Biz Airfrance, are you claiming that there is something inferior with Irish people?? That they cannot be managers or that they are pikeys or something like that?? Have you seen who is in charge of BA? I suggest you put your topics in self loading frieght, thats where passengers and/or aerosexuals post there ideas.
Having had a nightmare experience in that crap hole beauvais almost everytime - i have come to the conclusion that the french have the intelligence of a peanut.
The french + italians = cocky, dangerous,3rd world,2nd rate ATC.constant confusion on the frequency - you can hear it in the controllers voice.changes of runway while your on approach.getting a simple airways clearance is extremely difficult.various different languages -all talking crap,whilst your trying to flare the effin airplane=unsafe.inefficient airlines(alitalia etc) and airport authorities.
Dont get me started,or have i already
Harsh but the majority will agree -FACT
The best thing about flying in france or italy is the bloody airway out of the place,with hopefully no speed restriction
Last edited by leeds 65 : 13th June 2009 at 18:53.
The snotty little shi-s who the company call fo's that think they are gods gift to everyone, who whinge, moan, critise the wrong doings of the company, Have a massive gob but cannot fly the aeroplane and have no idea what airmanship is,
of course you put every one in the same bucket for every little fallacy, so I guess you fall in the above cat too.
It's not racist, it's true. Germany, UK, Holland, the Nordics, Belgium all manage to control their airspace pretty well. The further south you go, the worse it gets.
OK everyone, can we get this thread back on subject rather than lowering it to nation hating. The unifying thing about working for Ryanair is that one seems to feel that the hate from above is distributed evenly, regardless of where you come from
UK Viking
I don't know what contract you are on or if you are comparing the same, because I have two friends who are captains at easy and one who is an F/O. Maybe your friends are in Madrid or some other base, non UK, with differrent terms. For UK based easy pilots, the whole treatment and salary is far better than at Ryan. They have a 5/3, 5/4 earlies/lates roster, leave system is transparent, fair and flexible. No joke allocations of leave at thelast minute. It took a while to negotiate, but now they say they will never leave.
Agreed right now, expansion is not fast there, not unusual in many airlines. Ryan is only expanding relatively fast because their costs are lower. Why is that - because they pay us less than the other UK majors pay their pilots.
They absolutely rely on staff turnover so that pilots such as you come and go and are not so aware of what the salary was relative to the other UK companies. My figure of 8,000 GBP is the amount, in todays money, that you are paid LESS than the same RYR captain in 2000 was. The VALUE of your basic (and all the other pay) has got less due to the pay rises over the years never even approaching the rate of inflation. Ie you have been made poorer.
Don't think that you will be there only for a few years and then move - with the pay going down so fast, A LOT of fellow ryan pilots will have the same idea when the market picks up, the competiton for those jobs will be immense, and because ryan will have taken market share due to the crap pay = lower overheads there will be less jobs, and on lower money, to choose from than in the last upswing in the market. It's a race to the bottom, led by ryanair, but we can do something to stop it.
We can get the union. Force the company to negotiate. Remove the reason why we will all be looking for another job!
This is just why MOL will continue to make you guys look like the fools you appear to be.......
Bickering like school children, and 99% without a backbone in sight.
If you pay for your rating, pay for a uniform, pay for sim checks hotels etc....you deserve all you get..or more accurately don't get.
I particularly like the "im alright jack" posts on here, as well as the view that things will improve when you move to left hand seat...are you serious?
What a joke, RYR are no better than a Bangalore sweatshop, more fool you muppets that work for them and complain.
That's rich, coming from a lackey of the Sicilian mob. Good old Monarch, impervious to the commercial wind as ever. 911, Sars, Gulf Wars 1 and 2, and you didn't skip a beat throughout the whole lot. Just kept marching on, and on, and on, and on, like always. How wonderful for you.
Those of us not blessed by the condom of commercial irrelevance are compelled by different motives. Those in glass palazzi should, at the very least, be careful when throwing stones, Monarch Man.
Ryanair is staffed by a mix of motivated professionals who do not care who they work for, and the people who want to be motivated professionals.
Given an open market everyone would be happy : the zero houred f/o's who to fly a shiny jet, the experienced ones who want a command, the captains who want to work for a decent employer, the traveling public just have to make their risk assessment and REAL cost analysis as to who they choose to fly with.
The problem is that given the Boeing based / airframe value increasing model, wannabees flying a shiny jet with low hours and willing to pay for it model, and the : here is your consumer based lets fly to a cheap airport and buy a bargain property model.. look at the collapsing property markets in the UK and Ireland .. look at the collapsing property prices in France and Spain in those " off the beaten track destinations".. that is what Ryanair sold people .. a dream .. and it is turning into reality whether O'Leary tells you that is the case or not
There are of course more permutations as to what has been sold to various people under various guises, the long and short of the matter is that the model is coming apart at the seams.
I travel very regularly, pay the tickets, and the FR boast is bullsh@t .... and I want service and a decently qualified crew to fly with.
There are many others are now spreading the word.. if FR are really cheaper book ... otherwise don't !
A simple comparison on most routes that people fly with wife kids and normal baggage shows that the traveling public has been sold a "partial truth" and if people have invested in either career or property terms they are about to come unstuck .. after all ... who made the promises ? ..
It's not going to be nice watching Ryanair unravel, but in the long term, it will be for the best.
The only sad thing is that like Bush and Blair, we don't get to see MOL in the dock.
I do work for Monarch and for once I wish The Camel was right - but I'm afraid the condom doesn't exist.
But to get back on the subject - MOL is driving you suckers towards White Van Man T's & C's. I hope you get your act together whilst you've still got a chance. And don't think you'll bail out into a better company because where Ryanair go, the rest of the industry will follow, so either stand and fight, or you're ducked.
the roster is perfect for me work on average 14 days a month, home every night. not been divorced through night stopping and i have a good life. Flown the 747 and the 767 with XXXX and for me this is the best flying i have ever done. the expenses are not that much, a fraction of the cost of being a balpa member. if you don't like it move over and let some one else in.
shi-s who the company call fo's that think they are gods gift to everyone, who whinge, moan, critise the wrong doings of the company, Have a massive gob but cannot fly the aeroplane and have no idea what airmanship is,
A whiff of gorgonzola.
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