Terms and EndearmentThe forum the beancounters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work. Let others in the industry make educated choices on where the grass is less brown! Scheduled, charter or contract -
I'm suprised that Leo Hairy Camel (an anagram of Micheal O'Leary - by the way) hasn't posted on this thread yet
He will... if this thread gives more interest, or turn to a common idea to STOP that ch.t with Ryanair...
Am not BALPA.... at the time I decided to join a union, I make my choice to IALPA... no personal consideration, just after a few talk, it seems that BALPA is much more for British pilots, my licences are Irish, so I take a decision, so simply.
BALPA, IALPA, do they have the power to determine if yes or no, all contract (RYR and BRK) are lawfull? I mean, Is that lawful to ask people to pay for their sim? (for instance)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexed
Secondly, you guys have to have the BALLS to stand up to management!
That could be a problem, but I expect to create a kind of mouvment...
Everyday I talk with one who are pissed off to loose more and more since they are with Ryanair, others are affraid about getting money at the end of the month, and others again are HAPPY and enjoy Ryanair... usually those guy never had any other AIRLINE experience!
But this not a reason to accept to be off everytime MOL decide it!
If all the pilots decide to break a duty day, and enter on strike, it could make thinking MOL and send him back to his mind and his idea.
People are affraid to loose the poor thing they have!
That's why I am asking either BALPA or IALPA to help now:
find a way where MOL is unlawful! and put him under pressure!
I suspect that more people would join BALPA if they came up with an incentive. As a non-member I have read nothing that suggests that BALPA offer anything other than 'advice' and 'support'. I get that from my friends.
I need more clear evidence that they actually do something because, frankly, the prospect of losing 3% of one's income when benefits appear so intangible is a major disincentive!
I agree that a fully unionised workforce would force MOL to modify his attitude to his employees (IIRC it worked for ground handlers at Dublin Airport a few years ago) and this would benefit the whole industry, but it isn't going to happen until BALPA comes up with a package that attracts Ryanair pilots.
The ball's in BALPA's court but dare I say that they're possibly too staid and old-fashioned to modify their practices to attract pilots at Ryanair in order to counter the threat low cost airlines pose to the established and legacy airlines employing the majority of their members?
This is why i love PPRuNe, everyone thinks they know whats best for everyone - it makes for such amusing reading!
Personally i love my job at RYR for lots of reasons, been here a while now but thats my personal choice and who are you to tell me im wrong or that i need to "join a proper airline" ?
In saying that - i fully support this BALPA campaign as yes - we do need some "dignity and respect" from management and i feel we would entice more RYR guys IF BALPA told us how they can help us. I receive the newsletters every week and there are always stories of what theyve done for other airlines and telling us how bad RYR is but theres never anything telling us what they will achieve - just that we need to sign a ballot. After talking to some of my colleagues - this is the main point in holding the whole process back.
So when you lot come on here to sl@g us all off for flying with RYR just remember that just because we are FR pilots (all for differing reasons) doesnt mean we dont want respect. And by calling us names, trying to make out that we are somehow scum and saying we drop our trousers....etc makes you look like a and isnt overlly productive to us trying to achieve our goal. Also points out to us that you have absolutely no idea about what is actually going on amoungst the FR pilot community.
That's what I just said, some people enjoy Ryanair.
CommandB, I guess you like paying your hotels? paying your sims and your training? paying your carpark? paying your uniform? and so on...?
Do you like being treating like chite when you call Crewcontrol because you need something?
Do you like arriving in a crew room (whatever the base) and nothing works (like every base)... And if you are delayed due to that fact, our lovely chief pilot call us telling us this not a good reason!
And you are still nothing!
I guess you like that!
So some people are pissed off, and want something normal, even with Ryanair, but we have to fight for that!
I totally agree with you, just couldn't be bothered replying to the idiots that verbally abuse FR pilots. It's hard to believe any of them are actually professional pilots.
FRpilot - I think CommandB wants the same thing as you, you may need to reread His/Her post.
As a Union member I'm waiting for the rest to catch up. I've been waiting along time for the utopia of union recon. We all know what the terms are like at FR. We all know they need changing and leaving won't change that only to find what you leave behind catching up with you. I am here to be counted if we ever get a chance to vote for change.
I've looked at all the options and most would only be a reduction in pay. The so called "good airlines" are letting people go, the ones that are hiring are doing so on lower conditions than the established employees "looking after themselves" one might think.
My main agreement with CommandB was with regards to the gimps that come on here and refer to FR pilots as "scum".
So Wind Check - please don't group me as a reason for the decrease in the condition of FR.
If you work here, what have you done to promote change.
I have just read from www.flightglobal.com about an unstable approach in Rome.
The Captain had lost one of his sons three days before the incident and the FO was a "pay for training" with only 475 hrs total time, 300 hrs in the B738 and according to the magazine no experience in bad weather.
I have to agree with a lot of the above posts. Seems like there is a genuine undercurrent of ready, willing and able pilots who see that collective bargaining is not just necessary to stand up to Ryanair, but necessary to stop attritioin in T&Cs across the industry - it's THAT serious an issue.
In my previous post I ended with "YOU are BALPA" - and that is basically the case. So when you ask "What is BALPA going to do for us?", - what do YOU want BALPA to do for you? What changes do you want to see made to your working practices?
Yet again, I remind you guys that this recogntion campaign in Ryanair is being led by a fair few pilots IN the company. Not outsiders. BALPA isn't some mysterious outside entity - it's a resource to be utilised by you and your own collegues to enable fair representation.
So, with the caveat that it would probably be better to let BALPA know directly, rather on this forum which we know Ryanair management read (and therefore can steal your ideas to stave off unionisation), ask yourselves - what changes do you want to see in Ryanair? How can BALPA change it for the better? - then get in touch with BALPA and tell them!
What a load of crap!!!
Ryanair= best roster in the industry, always home at night, if you need to travel from base to base its free, if you have to fly out of your base you get money to cover hotels and best of all you get fantastic money!
Thank you.
Not sure what that roster is, but if you wanna be home every night you should not have become a pilot IMO.
Travel/hotel? Hey, they want you there, you wanna be home remember?
Fantastic money, we wouldn't be talking about that depreciating coin called sterling something right?
RYR, freaking virus. Make 2 cts on the dollar and copycats pop up like damn mushrooms. Continue to rape the industry man and call you company Gold but we all no its cheap plastic - made in China - , only instead of the sweatshops its suckers like FRPilot that bite the bullet.
You get what you pay for
Last edited by postman23 : 11th June 2009 at 17:09.
@ Commandb
You are right to say that you should not be called names just because you fly for a crap outfit but wanting "dignity and respect", come on mate, get real.
Only way you are gonna get some respect is by walking away from that malicious joint.
The biggest challenge for a union in a company is to create a common interest amongst its members. By the looks of it, that ain't happening. 2nd item on the to-do list becomes exciting management that employee's quality of life improves productivity. Clearly a lesson that your CEO missed in his days at school (he did go to school didn't he?)
I had passed the recruitment process with Brooksfield for Ryanair in June 2007.
After passing the sim and the interviews, Declan Doney called me for giving to me the "good news" of being positive for the job.
But there was a little problem...23,000 euros, no salary, no hotel or accomodation during training.
At that moment, I was DC10 Captain with 3200 hrs in the Dead Cruicer, more than 5000 hrs total time. So I had decided to refuse the job.
Ryanair doesn't want pilots, they want only "cash".
Tell me if in any normal company a Captain after losing his son is gonna fly???
Even in the Asian companies in the same scenario you are gonna have one week off.
But in Ryanair if you don't fly you don't eat.
Just enjoyed reading the latest anti balpa publication from the company!
i really am bored of hearing about it now, does make me laugh though, if ryanair are not at all bothered about balpa why go out of there way to make some big pro's and con's list about it!
there must be something to it, but i do recon that initialy balpa recognition will mean lower terms and conditions as management would over react and go to town on balpa and the pilots just cos they can,, then if it starts to cost them money they will start to deal a little at a time to maybe get back to a level where we are now with a couple of crap frilly bits on the side to make us think we won,, maybe a free clip on tie a year or something
personally i think balpa is a waste of time still, everyone keeps saying its not what balpa can do for you but what you can do for you as the pilots are balpa,,,, so why bother with the fee to talk, we can talk for free and get ignored.
my advice, fly here while you like it then go somewhere you think is better, if your happy to stay and can afford to with constant reductions then do so.
its funny to see that people will blame ryanair pilots for lowering terms all over the industry because we let management get away with it,,, well if in your other magic airlines with balpa in your sleeve are following ryanair tactics which i read around that they slowly are doing (Easy, BMI paying for line training ect) then balpa should be kicking there ass,,, but I dont see that,,, i just see ryanair leading the pack with there look out for number 1 attitude and the others slowly following,,, balpa is maybe just slowing the process a little but by no means stopping it
My allowance with Ryanair,even after 40 % tax, easily covers all my extra expenses ie. SIM, Parking, Uniform, ID, Hotels (max twice a year doing SIM). I was ones politely ASKED to take 5 days in Italy, hotel paid and extra allowences during the stay, a very good and fair deal.
I also get like 10 % extra for pension if i pay the same amount, which is almost as good as the one I had in a Scandinavian Airline some yers ago.
I have a 5/4 roster which is very good if I live near my base BUT also very good if I need to commute on a absolutely free basis within Ryanair network.
My netpay is, for the time being, at least what my ex-colleges gets around the world.
I don't have my favorite base yet, but do you think you get the base you want in other large airlines ? We are a very large airline with about 2000 pilots, not easy to manage concerning everyones wishes.
Ryanair just send out a note concerning the BALPA recognition, I can't see BALPA being able to change anything to the better, myself just joined a independent union instead, as I am quite happy with my job and don't see any better T & C anywhere.
Yes, my friends, those 3200 in the 10s were most of them in the right hand seat.
Anyway, 3200 hrs SIC in a three engines and heavy wide body must be enough to qualify for a B738 SIC position without having to pay for the ride.
For your information, in my previous company we had two FO upgraded to captains with only 1,500 hrs total time. Both were flying the 10s for 2 years before upgrade and they were very good captains.
They are flying A320 as Captains for LAN Peru at this moment.
off everytime MOL decide it!
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