Terms and EndearmentThe forum the beancounters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work. Let others in the industry make educated choices on where the grass is less brown! Scheduled, charter or contract -
For those of you thinking that Ryanair will not deal with Balpa, Take a look at their filing to the US SEC .
Quote "#
In addition, in the United Kingdom, the British Airline Pilots Association
(“BALPA”) in 2001 unsuccessfully sought to represent Ryanair’s U.K.-based pilots in their negotiations with the
Company. BALPA may request that a new ballot on representation be undertaken among Ryanair’s U.K. pilot
body, which, if successful, would allow the U.K. pilots to be represented by BALPA in negotiations over pilot
salaries and working conditions.
Labor Relations Could Expose the Company to Risk.
A variety of factors, including, but not limited to, the
Company’s recent profitability, may make it more difficult for Ryanair to maintain its current base salary levels
and current employee productivity and compensation arrangements. Consequently, there can be no assurance that
Ryanair’s existing employee compensation arrangements may not be subject to change or modification at any
time. However, given deterioration in the economic prospects of the Company, the Company has sought to freeze
certain employees’ pay and eliminate redundant positions. These steps may lead to deteriorations in labor
relations in the Company and could impact the Company’s business or results of operations.
This Info can be found in the Investor Relations section of the Ryanair Website.
Guys, have a look at what's going on at British Airways and BALPA ... Do you really think that Balpa will make Ryanair do a 180 degrees turn in terms of conditions, salary, etc?? Come on guys, as said before many times in this topic, the King is Michael O Leary, he will do what HE wants with his airline. He can easily sack any disturbing guys with a crap brookfield contract, in just one second with no explanation. I am sure that many new cadets who be willing to pay their type rating for twice more than it is now, and they will put their trouser down and accept to do 500 hours for free.
After all Ryanair is not that bad. 5/4 roster, new aircraft, many bases all over europe, no nightstops, nice cabin crews, planes are always full, many destinations, money is OK.
Ryanair will never improve, but also, I am sure that other legacy airlines will get their salary and conditions worse and worse.
as for U.S. SEC filings Ryan Air can say what they want. unless it's a financial disclosure, it their opinion. Buy some shares and go to a stockholder meeting then ask some questions.
wind check says: "He can easily sack any disturbing guys with a crap brookfield contract, in just one second with no explanation. I am sure that many new cadets who be willing to pay their type rating for twice more than it is now, and they will put their trouser down and accept to do 500 hours for free."
ALL THE MORE REASON TO HAVE A UNION
"After all Ryanair is not that bad. 5/4 roster, new aircraft, many bases all over europe, no nightstops, nice cabin crews, planes are always full, many destinations, money is OK."
5/4 roster which they have taken away. Why? Because of 'OPERATIONAL REASONS' - THE UNIION ISN'T EVEN IN YET! If they can do that now, what's to say they won't make plenty more 'operational' decisions which take away that nice roster? New A/C - only as long as we get good deals from our suppliers, which might not be the case if MOL keeps trying to them off. Bases all over Europe - which you will be sent to, at the COMPANY's whim, at YOUR cost, away from your home, so "no nightstops" doesn't really matter a damn. Nice Cabin Crews, who would gladly give their right arm to get better terms and conditions in Ryanair! Planes always full? Really? Always? Explain the 30% loads I take then? Happens quite regularly. Many destinations, true - and a few can be 'challenging' especially with 200hr cadets sitting next to you trying to understand the Italian accent. "Money's OK" - AND USED TO BE SO MUCH BETTER, but in over a decade of profits we've seen it go down down down. Better off without a union? What planet are you on?
"Ryanair will never improve, but also, I am sure that other legacy airlines will get their salary and conditions worse and worse."
And why do you think that is wind check? If we're running with a lower cost base because the company treats us like dog-dirt. New pilots coming into Ryanair on BKD contracts, not getting paid while they sit on the ground furlowed. No duty of care from the company. Command upgrades getting less on their contracts every year, maybe even having to pay for their upgrades from now on. No negotiation; just brought in under the wire. You think companies who play fair stand a chance? WE CAUSE THE ROT BECAUSE WE DON'T STAND UP AGAINST UNFAIR PRACTISES. RYANAIR DOESN'T IMPROVE BECAUSE WITHOUT SOMEONE TO DRAW THE LINE IT DOESN'T HAVE TO!
The question here is not if BALPA is any good. We could debate that ad infinitum.
THE QUESTION IS WHETHER STICKING WITH THE STATUS QUO IS ANY BETTER THAN BEING UNIONISED.
The answer to that is undoubtedly NO.
BALPA is the union the UK guys have chosen to go with. They are the ones we have to get behind if we are to see the unfair play by Ryanair mgt a) put under the microscope and b) if we are to see any chance of stopping it.
Vexed I agree with you
The thing is Ryanair used to recruit experienced FOs with 1500 hours Jar25 and they had the type rating bonded for 5 years, and a Ryanair contract (not the crappy Brookfield one) which was very good indeed. Now, this is old story because Ryanair found out that it is cheaper to recruit wannabes willing to pay for everything, with pilots flying even when they are sick, or willing to fly maximum hours even on days off to get more cash, and untill there is no air disaster as a consequence of that, Ryanair will make maximum monney.
The problem is not MOL, but wannabe cadets and SFOs looking for command at any cost, those guys should go away
The problem isn't the wannabe cadets or command upgrades. They are symptoms of the larger problem - i.e. the system allows such things to happen. Although I disagree with the paying for type-rating/command upgrades, I cannot hold it against those wannabes who see it as their way in. They will see it as a step up from their current positions (which in Ryr are driven lower each year). So I can't blame them. If they don't take it, someone else will.
The thing is, how do we stop it, or at least stem the tide? As individuals we have no say, that's for sure. If we have a collective voice, we can at least propose other ways of doing things at a louder volume. It will probably never get back to the days of full sponsorship, as commercial realities are unlikely to allow it, but there are other ways of recruiting which would be fairer to the wannabe and the wider industry, as long as the company is compelled to see it that way.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think there's a line beyond which the job is not so attractive anymore.
My question is : what amount of shit do we have to take to make the balance sheet for this job become negative ? Below what sort of T&Cs are we supposed to prefer other types of jobs ? What is the line below which we have NOTHING TO LOSE ?
I don't work at Ryanair anymore. I've had enough of insults, whatever their form. I now fly for a legacy company. And I am actually starting to wonder whether this job will be mine for ever. I have another 20-25 years to go and considering the pace at which our conditions are plunging, why not deviate ?
I mean nearly zero Christmasses, very few weekends, mad body-clock, partial pressure going up and down and up and down. Security checks to make you feel happy early in the morning, being provided with water on board is now nearly a perk, my salary is ok but my class-mate is now making twice as much and gets to spend regular hours with family and friends. We've had a better start with him taking more stress home (and less money) while I was flying nice powerful jets. But in the longer run, his investment has proved a better return with more money and better quality of life and less stress.
You guys have nothing to lose joining BALPA. You're going get much lower if you don't.
Come on, make their day, as they put it so mildly...
Having BALPA in place will present a proper consultation process between agreements opposed to the useless ERC model in place. You take it or off type model.
All the LTC's should just say until the current situation is resolved we will not be line training or checking. Although this needs unity and BALPA gives that single voice.
As a previous poster put it perfectly "THE QUESTION IS WHETHER STICKING WITH THE STATUS QUO IS ANY BETTER THAN BEING UNIONISED."
I will keep on training, got an almost 100 % attendancy the last 2 years which I will try to keep, left balpa and joined an independant unioun for the legal stuff, enjoying my 5/4 roster, my pension is not the best in the world but it is there, got brand new equiptment and working for an airline that does'nt suffer as much as ALL the others, my guess is that in 2 - 3 years time the situation is opposite and Ryanair will have to make better T & C to make pilots stay, has always been like that.
Wote no to Balpa and you will be better of in the future.
With all due respect to you UK Viking, you don't know what you're talking about.
Ryanair is about 1 step forward, 3 steps back. You think YOUR T&Cs are going to get better?
Why? To have YOU stay? Why should the company care about YOU? If you get expensive or demand more then you can leave! The company will give better T&Cs to the newcomer who wants your place, then work on reducing his T&Cs until he leaves! And how will you know what positions are available in the company, or what the going rate is? Its not readily available and everyone's T&Cs differ depending on when they joined! That's the way its been and unfortunately, with people like you - the way it will continue to be!
For all our sakes I hope you ARE right, but experience in Ryanair has taught me otherwise.
... Do you really think that Balpa will make Ryanair do a 180 degrees turn in terms of conditions, salary, etc?? 
Come on guys, as said before many times in this topic, the King is Michael O Leary, he will do what HE wants with his airline. He can easily sack any disturbing guys with a crap brookfield contract, in just one second with no explanation. I am sure that many new cadets who be willing to pay their type rating for twice more than it is now, and they will put their trouser down and accept to do 500 hours for free.
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