PPRuNe Forums

Go Back   PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Terms and Endearment
Forgotten your Username/Password?
Register FAQ Calendar Advertise Mark Forums Read

Terms and Endearment The forum the beancounters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work. Let others in the industry make educated choices on where the grass is less brown! Scheduled, charter or contract -


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 3rd July 2009, 18:07   #101 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: uk
Posts: 301
Fly747,

Virgin rebutted that story today. Do you mean there could be truth in it?

Heaven forfend....
stansdead is offline   Reply
Old 4th July 2009, 11:53   #102 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: London
Posts: 31
BART
One of the best posts I have read on here Respect
Chippybus is offline   Reply
Old 6th July 2009, 14:47   #103 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Swiss Alps
Posts: 493
Analysis

So what’s gone wrong in just a few weeks after so brazenly boasting how efficient it was in contrast to rival British Airways?

The simple answer is that Virgin is waking up to the realities of the marketplace and without any major airline alliance that wants this subsidised carrier amongst their ranks, the battle which Branson’s baby faces is more than just an uphill one.

For over six months, rival British Airways has seen plummeting premium passenger figures, particularly in Asia where Virgin is slashing flights to Hong Kong by 50%. While Virgin has moved to take out system capacity for its winter schedule, however, by not doing so for this summer means it still has airplanes to fly relying on low yield fares as oil prices continue to climb. Compounding Virgin’s cost base woes is the highly inefficient A340-300/-600 fleet, which guzzle as much fuel as oil prices rise – no wonder that Qatar Airways’ CEO Akbar Al-Baker said he wanted to “throw them away”. Virgin’s recent A330 order is evidence of that move, albeit several years too late.

Throw in the worse-than-expected forward bookings at Virgin and quickly you see that its reliance on premium customers is far greater than that of British Airways, particularly with its smaller network that has less room to offset big declines in demand for that class of travel. It already got rid of the manicure services to cut costs – a gimmick 10 years ago Virgin would have never considered abandoning.

British Airways by no means is not fairing any better, however its forward bookings have remained fairly stable and premium demand on its key North Atlantic routes have stabilised. Of course, the ongoing talks at British Airways and unions could undermine its business model but that’s another discussion altogether.

Singapore Airlines’ parent Temasek struggling to even give away the 49% holding it has in Virgin Atlantic - the Singaporean carrier has oft stated desire to fly to North America from a European hub and it may as well consider buying out the other half, keep the brand and operate those routes via proxy.

That of course is the long term outlook. But if people look at how British Airways is coping and start to get “nervy”, then the real clatter of worry is in the veil of PR gambling being removed to display the ineptness with which Virgin Atlantic is run. There’s a reason why the Star, SkyTeam and Oneworld alliances do not entertain this “look at me!” airline – it simply has nothing on offer for them.

Little wonder then that BMI and Lufthansa are equally keeping themselves at arms length from Virgins ailing overtures.

While all of this goes on, the Virgin PR machine will do little to console the staff it has to cull for its mismanaged operations.
Analyses are solely the work of the authors and have not been edited or endorsed by GLG.
Count von Altibar is offline   Reply
Old 6th July 2009, 14:49   #104 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Swiss Alps
Posts: 493
The above article seems to suggest the fuel guzzling a340 fleet is a big part of Virgin's woes but I wreckon the real reason for the further jobs cull is the forward bookings. I guess if the world economy picks up quickly that could follow suit.
Count von Altibar is offline   Reply
Old 7th July 2009, 18:03   #105 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 275
or the threat of a BA strike...
crewrest is offline   Reply
Old 7th July 2009, 19:28   #106 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: South East
Posts: 109
Even at full steam ahead, strike would be mid Sept at the earliest.
Super Stall is offline   Reply
Old 7th July 2009, 19:35   #107 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 13
Not sure the threat of a BA strike will offer much help according to the huge VS drop in forward bookings reported (30%+ drop last month on premium apparently) The benefit will be very short lived and will not avert the current serious long term problems of none of the alliances wanting to get VS on board.

My sources (very reliable as you have seen in previous posts) have no doubt that BA will hit the nuclear option with cabin crew this time. All of July talking to ACAS, followed by 90 day notice of imposition of new contracts. By the time a legal ballot is called and actioned, earliest dates will be Sep/Oct - summer season over. They already have ring fenced funds in place to take on the cabin crew union and break them into tiny pieces this time. Watch this space.

VS has huge exposure to the N. Atlantic and little else. They offer a tiny amount of routes elsewhere and are unable to redirect their efforts accordingly. BA have a large Worldwide route structure which, apart from the N. Arlantic, is still apparently holding up pretty well. VS need some new non Atlantic routes, and quickly.

Whilst not directly related to the current redundancies, the press are starting to show serious interest in the previously squeaky clean image:

Daily Mail 7/7/09

Sir Richard Branson's Virgin Megastores accumulated losses of more than £300million before they were sold off two years ago.

Accounts filed at Companies House show that Virgin Holdings, which owns a number of Branson's businesses, swung into the red in the year that ended in March 2008.

Profits of £151.7million turned into losses of £227.3million that year after a one-off operating loss of £324.3million.

That came after the 125 Virgin Megastores were sold to Zavvi, a rival music retailer, which went into administration last year with debts of more than £100million.

A Virgin spokesman said that Virgin Holdings' losses were mainly due to accumulated losses at Megastores over many years, which were written off once the business was sold.

The accounts also reveal that Virgin paid Zavvi £61million to break a licensing agreement for the use of the Virgin brand.

The firm also wrote off another £21million when it sold Virgin Vie, the cosmetics business, to its management. This also led to a payment - of £8.8million - to remove the Virgin brand.

Last edited by NOBBY NOBOV : 7th July 2009 at 19:53.
NOBBY NOBOV is offline   Reply
Old 7th July 2009, 19:43   #108 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: down south
Posts: 34
It may be Sept at the earliest for a possible BA strike but the damage is being done on This Morning Simon Calder was warning of possible disruption which cant be doing BA any favours and in turn can only help VS in the short term.
air2bob is offline   Reply
Old 7th July 2009, 20:00   #109 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Channel Islands
Posts: 115
Yes, look what happened when a threatened strike by Monarch was in the press, lots of cancellations by holidaymakers. VS must be really pleased that they have announced that they will take industrial action. Joe Public doesnt know whether its going to be next week or in Sept.
Tercarley is offline   Reply
Old 8th July 2009, 02:10   #110 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Mostly here, but often there
Posts: 408
Well, it (the general public) does. Front page of the Telegraph today (well, yesterday) mentioned August at the earliest. Besides, we all know how reliable Simon Calder is when it comes to facts about the airline industry (still looking for that £100k average salary....)
brit bus driver is offline   Reply
Old 8th July 2009, 03:21   #111 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: boat
Age: 42
Posts: 72
Not so bright and red then at the paddlepop lion fairground?Even with half the staff costs compared to BA?
No, just make sure you never waste a crisis and exploit it to its fullest!
abc1 is offline   Reply
Old 8th July 2009, 08:45   #112 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: sussex
Posts: 358
There will be no strike at BA as it will be the end of UNITE as a union (Unemployed do not pay union dues !).

They know that and so does the BA board.
stormin norman is offline   Reply
Old 10th July 2009, 10:03   #113 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 13
I see Branson has recently announced plans to seek approval from the DoT for anti trust immunity with Delta on routes between the US and Oz ??

Hang on a minute, wasn't it RB that claimed that an AA/BA tie up should be turned down by the DoT as it would be bad for competition and would damage consumers' interests !!!

I pity the VS workforce having to cope with such erratic behaviour.
NOBBY NOBOV is offline   Reply
Old 18th July 2009, 08:58   #114 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Earth (just)
Posts: 688
Royhudd

Roy says

Quote:
layoffs=VS SOP.

And when P45 is received, no RSVP. RB is an unwholesome character, despite the PR.
How right you are! Having been duped by the virgin spin of "come and join the virgin family" and lived the entire duration of Virgin Express Ireland, I know exactly how dysfunctional that family is!!!!

We were ceremoniously dumped without ANY assistance in arranging interviews with VA who were hiring at the time. All we asked RB for was a feed into an interview and he couldn't give a stuff.

This guys a knob and doesn't belong anywhere near the public.

Pulling the wool over your eyes - hopefully from the fast unravelling cardigan.......

Any guy who makes his seventy year old mother carry his bags clearly has no concept of respect.

I wish you all luck guys. IMHO you will need it!
Wing Commander Fowler is offline   Reply
Old 18th July 2009, 10:21   #115 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: uk
Posts: 4
Good to see you're not still bitter about it though.

robberdog is offline   Reply
Old 18th July 2009, 10:41   #116 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Earth (just)
Posts: 688
Bitter? Not exactly. I tend to have a long memory with these things though. When you and your partner both lose your livelihood it tends to leave scars. Thats all part of life's education process and should stop us making the same mistake again. Thanx for your sympathy though!
Wing Commander Fowler is offline   Reply
Old 16th November 2009, 17:10   #117 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Hyeres, France
Posts: 97
Anyone have any news whether our own Danny F has survived the troubles at VS ??

No reason other than we all owe him an awful lot of our thanks for PPRuNe and I understand he gave up a reasonably secure job to get his bum into the RHS of a 747....

Fingers crossed....
Hussar 54 is offline   Reply
Old 16th November 2009, 18:44   #118 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: uk
Posts: 301
Danny was senior enough to never be threatened by the recent troubles.
stansdead is offline   Reply
Old 16th November 2009, 19:52   #119 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: England
Posts: 157
Do you mind me asking guys how many pilots actually were forced out of Virgin this year during these troubling times?
Baron buzz is offline   Reply
Old 16th November 2009, 20:00   #120 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: North West, UK
Age: 42
Posts: 627
and is it true what I heard 2 weeks ago that some of those who were working their notice had their redundancy rescinded
EGCC4284 is offline   Reply
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes


Posting Rules
vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:42.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC7
© 1996-2009 The Professional Pilots Rumour Network

As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, or sciolists*, to elicit certain reactions.

*"sciolist"... Noun, archaic. "a person who pretends to be knowledgeable and well informed".