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they dont even want to hire German pilots !!!!
I guess there are a lot of highly experienced and qualified German pilots who would love to fly for LH even LHIT.....BUT...
they want only to hire a pilot, who fit in their psychological "LH-roster".
Long time ago someone told me: we really dont need experienced pilots, we can make monkeys to fly our aircrafts, provided that they "fit" in our psychological-roster
Last edited by Airbus_a321 : 2nd July 2009 at 21:39.
Problem is, that the italian pilots have a lot of faith in the LH recruitment because they have no experiance with it.
LH is playing a lot of tricks with it, they need more pilots, more will pass,
guys who paid 120K € to do the ATPL with the LH school have better chances to pass the selection.
Pilots from Swiss and AUA had better chances to pass, or their selcection was even accepted. Of course they deny it.
Funny thing, friend of mine, who is to old to join LH, flew 2 years on their A300-600, because he was sent over from HLF.
It is not the first time this happens and it wont be the last, but LH does not need to hire pilots for LHITA, at the end they could continue like they do now.
The union is playing hard and they dont care about others, now they even want 50% of the Aerologic jobs, which is not even an LH company.
Its Ok that LH guys want to protect their jobs, but if you talk to (most) of the LH pilots, the consider non KTV pilots as 2. class pilots.
Lets hope that one day they dont make the same experiance like the AZ guys and standing there in the rain.......all alone.
but i think that it is unfair what you are saying about lh pilots.
The jobs at lhi are "our" jobs. We have no upgrades, no progression, lh cargo has stored md11s.
The embraer, a replacement for the 737 fleet goes to air dolomiti, augsburg airways and cityline and there will be no longer upgrades with condor.....
The managment took the 5 lhi A319 from germanwings(full lh subsidary) and is cuttting our jobs. And you think it is unfair if lh tris and tres fail pilots during their application process?
In the usa, everybody that would apply for such a job would be called a scab!
And by the way...the reason why the older hlf pilots were not able to join lh has nothing to do with pilot skills or interpersonal reasons....
The reason is the company pension system of lh. You get a "übergangsversorgung" when you are 60 years old. If you are to old when you join you cannot accumalte enough credits and you would take away credits of your fellow pilots.
The jobs at lhi are "our" jobs. We have no upgrades, no progression, lh cargo has stored md11s.
Absolutly agree with you, these are your a/c, your routes and of course your colour and so your jobs, no doubt.
But wouldnt it be fair, that you fight your war with your company and dont make good pilots a victim of your war?
I am with you in all this, but how could you ask for understanding if you dont care about the others?
Get your war done, if you win you have nothing to worry about, if you losse you might have selected out a lot of good pilots for LHITA, this is not the style of a major carrier.
You and me we know what is going on with LH, but the italian guys dont have a clue what happens in LH, they just see the chance to work for LH, which they consider as a very serious company, after all this shit with AZ.
This post could have obviously done only by a LH employee/pilot and either is bare sacarsm or just big big rubbish.
But for me its understandable that the above quote is probabely the thinking of most of the LH pilots. They are working in an ivory tower, on top with big KRANICH-blinders and so they have no clue about the REAL situation in the globalised airliners job market.
They have no yet realized that the big bubbel has burst. Hope they will get a chance to land in the real world
@EAM I agree. Unfortunately our Italian guys, after having experienced all the grande casino with AZ and the behaviour of some other airlines in their homecountry are highly disappointed and frustrated.
Now with the new born "LHI-star" most of them are just to much trustful, bona fide, and see LHI as a kind of a Messiah. But it is NOT.
They will experience and undergo a very painful and probabely mostly unsuccessful, selection process.
Last edited by Airbus_a321 : 4th July 2009 at 11:34.
to A321 and all the other whiners and daydreamers...
I am sure there is some bloke out there who will do your job aswell for the half of the salary and please be nice to this guy. He only wants to survive!
The LH Mainline pilots are starting to fight against the erodication of OUR working enviroment. This has started way too late, but hope not too late.
I know you want my job, thats ok. I have no problem with that. But please dont have a problem if i want to keep mine and fight against anybody who wants to have a share of my pie. thats life, got a problem with that?
The management tries to cut the pie in many little crumbles..
The list is long and will continue
Lufthansa Italia
BMI
AUA
SWISS
Brussels Airlines
Jade Cargo
Aerologic
JetBlue
Condor Berlin
Condor
German Wings
want more?, i am sure there is more in the pipeline to come...
All these companies are an opportunity for pilots outside the KTV to get a job, thats fine with me, but they also are a opportunity for the management of LH:
1. to bypass the entry-requirements for LH Mainline
2. Pay less wages
3. Create jobs with a lower standart of life for its employes
4. install a divide and rule situation among the employees
5. try to get rid of KTV
Anybody who doesnt understand this, is living in a dreamworld. The management tries to cut costs and we try to earn our money. Thats the way the industry works. If you cant stand the heat, get out of the kitchen because its going to be a long, hot summer!
To all these comments about ivory towers and arrogant pilots, i have only one answer: Open your eyes! This is what the LH management wants. Little brave followers who all blow into the same horn. Fly for less money, shuts the FK up when it comes about T&C. All these puppets are happy to fly a jet, have an endless thankfullness to the company who gave them a chance. They also fear the dooming prognosis of the managemt of a bancrupcy looming around the corner if they are not willing to work for less.
As long my company has assets to invest outside the core-business i dont think the St is going to hit the N1. Where do you think this money comes from? LH is buying on airline after another and investing at the same time in its shortrange & cargo mainline as little as possible. At the same time its asking employees for sacrifices in salary and grounding A/C and starting the same operations with different subcarriers. (etc. LH Cargo / Aerologic)
The only clueless here is you A321! Because the scenario like above is the one guys like you dont understand, the big picture, the global play... Only because i still feel proud to fly and work for a company i dont have to shame a bit! What do you know about globalisation and the "real world outside" All you want is to get rid of the well paid, well trained, fat and happy KTV pilots. Are you a pilot or a managementpuppet? If you didnt make the DLR test, i feel sorry for you. You got a job in an A321 i assume, so be happy and make the best out of your options. I wish you all the best and good luck.
Look how well the other airlines in Germany treat their employees, notice any similarities in the development? If the KTV falls, its one of the last fortresses of good working conditions and i bet the remaining airlines will not pay better after that. All the smaller companies always orientate with the flag carriers. We all lose if the flag carriers lose.
We had some heated discussions with you EAM, and I do agree with you that its a foul play if guys get busted in a SIM Check because of politics. The LH management is playing a foul play also in Condor screenings, inviting DEC for selection but knowing at the same time that there are a lot of FOs who are way before them in the queu for upgrade, so there is no need for DEC. This is the same sh+t. Playing the pilots against each others.
Some of our checkers are very companymindend. Especially those who are involved in creating new subsidiaries of LH, because they are usually also having a management function. I wonder a little bit if these guys bust checkrides. It would be the vice versa what i would expect. I keep an ear open and check this out.
these are thoughts of a copilot after working for more than 10 years on the righthand seat. My CPT upgrade has moved well beyond the visible horizon. Wonder which comes first, gray hair, 40th birthday or an upgrade
is there somebody who's already been to the second phase ? I wanted to know if the final interview is in italian or english. I'm going to the first phase on 27th july.
thanks
May I also add to the discussion that within the next year or so, more than 300 cadets from the ab-initio training scheme will accumulate on a waiting list for Lufthansa mainline + Germanwings. Considering the current state of play, we can not be placed with Lufthansa Italia, Aerologic, Jade or any other LH spin-off. I hope one may understand now that this situation is perceived as (mildly speaking) paradox when on top of this new pilots are hired for what seaduck referred to as 'our jobs'.
So here's hoping that this summer will bring some clarity for us and all others currently seeking to join.
Ok student pilot, finish your training and then see what happens.
When we are talking about "our jobs" we are talking about pilots, not students.
warmkitter, I think we agree on most things, your jobs etc, fight for it.
But its, as you say, unfair to fail good pilots on the screening, but of course its unfair by LH to start a selection while still talking to the union.
Get an agreement, do a selection and then hire pilots, if able, but dont make others a victim of this war.
I wish you a lot of luck on your fight, but I guess you understand that I hope that it will be possible to hire pilots on LHITA, as you hope for the opposite.
Just remember, that most companies in italy pay much better than LH does,
so LHITA cant just pay peanuts, they have to pay almost the same like LH does.
What does exactly make those jobs "yours"?
LHITA will be an airline making its money in Italy, carrying mostly Italian people from\to Italian cities... why should they employ only German pilots?
Whats's the problem, the selection process? You want pilots to pass the DLR? Ok. Do you want them to pass the sim with "superior" LH standards? Ok. Do you want them to pass the tricky psycho games? That's fine. Fair enough, if you want to work for LH, you should undergo the same selection process as LH pilots, I can understand that.
What else make a German KTV worthier than these pilots? Only the fact that they applied for mainline LH when they still smell milk? What?
De facto pilots passing the selections didn't do nothing different than the great blonde German KTV pilots. What's the difference? The LH school?
Do you really thing the LH training standards are higher than, for example, AZ ones? Quite arrogant from you. And anyway passing the sim they proved to be good enough. Or not?
Maybe it's the German language? Or the German nationality? We are in Europe, wake up.
Tell me what. I really want to understand.
nobody thinks, that LH or LH Pilots are better. The point is, that LH managment is offering jobs on the one hand and cuts jobs on the other side inside the KTV.
That is the reason, why I said "our" jobs. LHI are jobs, that where former flown by LH mainline aircraft and LH mainline pilots.
Where is the problem that we are willing to fight for our jobs?
And by the way... "Just remember, that most companies in italy pay much better than LH does,
so LHITA cant just pay peanuts, they have to pay almost the same like LH does."
What is the name of these companies? At which italian airline is your initial salary more than 65000 euros and the final salary more than 200000 euros?
This has nothing to do with superior blond german superpilots,its nothing about training standarts, nothing about LH flightschool, nothing about AZ vs. LH standarts etc. DLR seems to be a traumatic issue for you, try to get over it!
1. you have no clue about the biz, if you want to join the conversation get informed about the big picture. i gave some hints. Here is another one, maybe you check what routes air dolomiti is flying. Some used to be B737 operated. MUC B737 is basicly phased out. No more training for CPT/FO on this type in any base. This will be the path LHITA will go too. Taking over RTEs covering south Europe. Rtes LH mainline used to operate. To be honest i am a little tired trying to explain what our "job" means. Wheather you get it or not. Maybe you ask a BA pilot about Openskies. He might try to get the message through. Maybe...
2. Keep your racist commets for your self, that is only populist BS. LH is employing regardless of nationality or color of hair.
to EAM: I hope that the italia pilots will push through T&C close to KTV. This will stop the eradication of payscales. Good luck!
At which italian airline is your initial salary more than 65000 euros and the final salary more than 200000 euros?
AirOne, Alitalia, Eurofly, just to name 3 of them.
Friend of mine is FO on 744, 8 years with LH, makes about 4300€ net (guess you can confirm that) FO AirOne after 1 year makes about 4500€ net.
@dirk, its not about the standart, even if some of the LH guys think only a LH pilot is a good pilot, but its more about the contract, the KTV.
I guess if LH would hire the pilots on the KTV for a MXP base it would be OK.
is there somebody who's already been to the second phase ? I wanted to know if the final interview is in italian or english. I'm going to the first phase on 27th july.
thanks
there're already 4 pilots who succesfully passed all the screening and now are waiting for the contract,but they've been told that discussion with union are still in progress
nobody thinks, that LH or LH Pilots are better. The point is, that LH managment is offering jobs on the one hand and cuts jobs on the other side inside the KTV.
That is the reason, why I said "our" jobs. LHI are jobs, that where former flown by LH mainline aircraft and LH mainline pilots.
I can agree with that, but this is not the case.
I don't remember of any LH plane flying the routes now operated by LHI. This is more like a new company (although with LH name on it) trying to serve a new market on new routes. They are not stealing anyone job, but creating new ones.
Not many similarities with Air Dolomiti.
They (LH) probably wouldn't have got all the support they are actually getting from local authorities without the promise to employ local people.
Quote:
I guess if LH would hire the pilots on the KTV for a MXP base it would be OK.
I'm not really sure of that. Those are "their" job... but I hope they will contraddict me.
sorry to say, but this discussion is not your cup of tea. you are just completing your ATP, not employed by any airline and just too young to understand.
may i make a suggestion to you, what about if you just contribute as a silent follower and maybe when you have been working for a couple years in the industry and gained some experience review your opinions. even if some guys here have different opinions, most of us have a common goal: prevent any management from eradicating working conditions in any airline. this may sound strange to you, but YOU will profit from this, if you make the step and get employed and stay long enough in the industry.
K up when it comes about T&C. All these puppets are happy to fly a jet, have an endless thankfullness to the company who gave them a chance. They also fear the dooming prognosis of the managemt of a bancrupcy looming around the corner if they are not willing to work for less.
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