Terms and EndearmentThe forum the beancounters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work. Let others in the industry make educated choices on where the grass is less brown! Scheduled, charter or contract -
I am looking for any information about Swiss.
What about pay scale? Roster? Bases? How much time until upgrade, >10 years?
Do they really stick to Lufthansa?
How is life there (within Swiss Intern Airlines)?
They don't seem to find flight crews. Why?
Thanks for any help!!
Payscale is at PPJN.com, quite accurate.
Rosters done via PBS and according company FDR/FTLs, which are a bit better than JAR-OPS et alt. No lazy life, though...
Base ZRH (GVA is a sort of base, but all these guys travel back and forth on their own expenses on reduced company tickets to ZRH, a additional stress to one's private life)
Upgrade everything between 8 and 25 years, very much depending on the industry's development.
Lufthansa is the mother and tells what to do and not to, but as long as LX performs as it does (right now), they won't interfere too much. Some sort of protection as well...
Life is fine as long as one knows how to un-stress the rosters and private life is not affected too much by the work. Note that rosters go 6-3-5-3ish (total of 32+/- days off in 3 months), some single days off now and then and changes are frequent these days. Stbys all from 0 to 10 per month.
Lack of crews mainly due to better options (mainly cash wise) in Switzerland, but improved conditions from now on and only option in Switzerland if you want to get on Longhaul at some point. And if the industry is still there in 20 years, LX could be one of the survivers...
Glad to help
Last edited by N1 and ITT : 18th July 2008 at 10:26.
That's a good one for sure, heard that song a few years ago when the 2LC of LX was still SR...
Apart from that N1 and ITT's infos are more or less correct:
- Upgrade time is currently in the 12+ years region
- Lack of crew is due to several factors, amongst others the requirement for German or French language, the bias towards Swiss citizens, retirement at age 57 (= plenty of ex SR/LX pilots working for other outfits past that age), and the great deal of mainly ex Crossair pilots working at Emirates/Etihad/Easy etc. If one considers the fringe benefits (such as fully paid pension (90% of last salary) etc, the salary is very attractive
- PBS is a PIA... satisfaction rates are given, bit very much different from one's own...
live 2 fly 2 live
PS
HISTORY:
- Once upon a time, SR went bankrupt
- Swiss airline was created as the Swiss citizens were robbed of roughly 3 billion CHF taxpayer's money
- A couple of years later, the cash ailing airline Swiss was given away for slightly more than a tenth of that amount to LH
- The so created LH South (or Swiss as still called by the locals) is prospering, thanks to mother LH and the monopolistic situation in the country
My friends that started with me and still are there are in their 16th year of service and still wear 3 stripes - and they are not the first on the seniority list for upgrading.
Rest is more or less correct.
Reason for need of more crews is that they are expanding, mainly long haul, after a long phase of reduction after the SR grounding. Ab initios go on Swiss European Avro while if you have experience you might start on the A320 family. But with experience the salary is a bit low.
My friends that started with me and still are there are in their 16th year of service and still wear 3 stripes - and they are not the first on the seniority list for upgrading.
You are hard pushed to see a youthful looking Swiss Captain nowadays. Expeically long haul since they are all old guys who were probably ex MD-11 with Swissair etc...
At the moment I do have a job as an airline pilot but maybe wanna apply for Swiss. Can anyone of you tell me what the selection process of Swiss contains? I saw there site, but I like to know what I can expect during those tests/days. Thanx for answers!
Might be worth to check as well Flightforum.ch - Powered by vBulletin
Among a lot of trash published by several high-strung and egocentric individuals you can find some useful information about the pilot selection at SWISS.
The Swiss are a nation of ego-maniacal, superior xenophobes and will treat you much in the same way as the Arabs of Dubai and Saudi treat their Pilipino house maids, and smirk at you while they do it. Great at following SOP's to the letter of the law, but incapable of thinking outside the box when it matters the most. Refer to the late Urs Zimmermann for further details. Good luck with your application, but unless you happen to be a Swiss national, and even then a SwissGerman speaker, be warned!
Well SW, thanks for the concerns but I think it is not really nice of you to blame the swissair crash due to stick to the SOP's and not thinking "outside the box". It was a little bit more complecated then that.
And maybe you are right but for example, the company who I work now for is also only SOP orientated. Its the problem with a lot of airlines.
And no, I have not a swiss or german nationality and german is not my native language, but have never had problems with swiss people. So will see... Time will tell!
Don't listen to those Swissair-haters. They are mostly former Crossair-Pilots who really got treated very badly in the downturns of Swissair.
Switzerland and its airlines have a long tradition of working together with all kind of nationalities. There are 25% foreigners living within its borders, and everyday there are more. That's why its economy is booming so much at the time (even during the international recession).
Swissair hired foreign pilots long before every other airline did. There are a few shortcomings for the Swiss job (for example pay), but I would give it a try.
As for Dani, just wonder what planet you live on? Mixing economics with the employment of foreigners, etc.
SierraJuliet, if you feel like it, go ahead and apply. As for any assessment, be ready. Talking about SOPs you are right, e.g. those of U2 are far more stringent than those at LX, given the same aircraft.
As for the Swiss, don't worry, the proportion of jerks (to respect the -18s here) is similar to the one in other countries.
Mach's guet
It is a proud half-Swiss writing, but i listen to criticism.
Sometime it is necessary to accept the truth even if it hurts.
Unfortunately with your post, you have proven SOME of the critics to be so very true.
By writing your biography in the public profile, you prove the typical egocentrism of the Swiss. But, on the other side.., congrats, nice CV!
Further more, if you think that the Swiss economy is still booming you prove that your are unable to think outside the box when it matters. Don't take it personally, but i know how we Swiss think....
By the way, beside the crap that SW wrote about Urs Z., don't tell me that you are still stuck with the old story between LX/SR! Over seven years have passed after the grounding and i maybe, outside the box, there is people that do not fit, or do not understand, the unique Swiss mentality even if they where never employed by Crossair.
Nobody hates Swissair, be honest! You know exactly what they hate...Crossair and non Crossair....
Switzerland and its airlines have a long tradition of working together with all kind of nationalities. There are 25% foreigners living within its borders, and everyday there are more. That's why its economy is booming so much at the time (even during the international recession).
Are these posters an example of Switzerland wanting to work together with other nationalities?
No... didn't think so....
Finally... a colleague of mine (who is not Swiss) had a interview with Swiss and the first question that was asked was:
Quote:
'So you are not Swiss... so what are you doing here?
Mr Geezer: Reading your profile and your nice comments about our fellow countrymen leads to no other conclusion than you must have had a sad encounter with somebody in our country. That must have been the real Big Don of Swiss aviation. Unlucky you...
One thing for your young pair of ears:
Imagine a country half the size of Scotland, 7.6mio pax, 40% of the landscape uninhabitable, 25% foreigners, 2 religious confessions and 4 official languages, no sea shore and no oil nor gas no whatsoever...
And now say that again, about the non-existent swiss tolerance, thoughtfulness and modesty.
Ah, yes, I almost forgot our fellow "Snidely Whiplash": Please leave. I am sorry if conclusive thinking is confusing for you...
When you have the largest and most powerful of all the political parties publishing posters like the pics I posted above, think for a moment as to what image that paints in the minds of people visiting, regardless of how warm the welcome was when they arrived? I find it baffling that you are saying that Swiss people are totally tolerant towards all foreigners when the majority of people in that country voted in the last election for a party that allegedly expressed a desire to halt cultural diversity in addition to wanting to stop foreigners moving to Switzerland to live.
I have had no bad experience personally and I have enjoyed my time in Switzerland and look forward to going back. Anyway we are diverting off the main topic here....
Yes, YOU diverted from the subject by publishing these posters. Not surprising you saved them somewhere, you display the same preconceived image of the Swiss as some of them of foreigners. Nice pairing!
By leaving this thread with your thread creap, please take the ultimate aviation-scumbag Snidely Whiplash with you.
Back to the thread:
For all newcomers, be it Swiss or not, the carreer outlook is not really nice at SWISS. They do well at the moment, however downsizing already glooming at the horizon. Entry T&Cs acceptable for young and eager, too low for the already rated. Upgrade on the A320 just below 20 years of service now (!) and looking to stay above 15 years, if no downsizing.
Your choice.
Dani you really are a muppet who likes to dwell on the past.Get a life and remember Crossair kept Swiss afloat for a little while longer and remind me again how much Lufty paid to bail this fantastic company out yet again.Enough said.
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