Loadsheets!
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Loadsheets!
Hi,
I am looking for an answer preferably from an English pilot as I want to know what the operation is in UK airlines for Load Sheets. However, anyone can help me.
My question is simple, Who does the loadsheet? and why is it done?
Thanks
Ben Alexander-Brown
I am looking for an answer preferably from an English pilot as I want to know what the operation is in UK airlines for Load Sheets. However, anyone can help me.
My question is simple, Who does the loadsheet? and why is it done?
Thanks
Ben Alexander-Brown
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Why do a loadsheet. We need to know how heavy the aircraft is on take off (TOW), so that we can use an appropriate amount of thrust for take off. We also have to check that the aircraft will not be above its maximum landing weight (MLW) when we reach the destination. We have to know that the payload is not above a maximum (MZFW) otherwise we will be above structural limits. Knowing how many people are on board is also required in the case of any incident. Knowing where the passengers are sitting and where the cargo is loaded is important for the trim (balance) of the aircraft.
The aircraft dispatcher (also called a red-cap) will prepare the loadsheet as he is reposible for ensuring that: the aircraft is fuelled, catered (bear in mind on a 737 the catering adds up to around 1000kg), loaded with the correct number of people, baggage, and freight.
Good luck with the studies!
CCCccc.....ough
The aircraft dispatcher (also called a red-cap) will prepare the loadsheet as he is reposible for ensuring that: the aircraft is fuelled, catered (bear in mind on a 737 the catering adds up to around 1000kg), loaded with the correct number of people, baggage, and freight.
Good luck with the studies!
CCCccc.....ough
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Not *all* UK based airlines 
I'm currently flying out of Manchester and I often have to do the load sheet myself. It takes a good ten minutes or so, depending on how quickly the info arrives at the plane.
It's no big deal to do, and even if we get a computer generated one we do one anyway as the stab trim figure is invariably hopelessly incorrect.
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Motion coming on!
I'm currently flying out of Manchester and I often have to do the load sheet myself. It takes a good ten minutes or so, depending on how quickly the info arrives at the plane.
It's no big deal to do, and even if we get a computer generated one we do one anyway as the stab trim figure is invariably hopelessly incorrect.
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Motion coming on!
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18 wheeler..
As a longtime designer of loadsheets and other like instruments of the devil, I suggest that computer generated data ought to give you a much better calculated cg .. and hence better stab setting.
A manual trimsheet usually has a number of designed-in errors (normally accounted for by an adjusted envelope)to make it workable.
If designed well, the trimsheet will ensure that the cg is OK (ie within limits) but not necessarily very near to where the trimsheet suggests it might be. As a result, the stab setting will be approximate only - there is no point in agonising over the setting ..... sensibly close is fine.
The computer generated data ought not to have the errors which are usual in the manual sheet.
Standard weights are another problem altogether - although, if they be based on sensible population stats .. then the data are pretty good with reasonable numbers of people and bags. Best to weigh if the operation is very critical on weight.
And, do keep in mind ... the empty weight data is not all that accurate in most cases .. I have done a number of investigations in this area and there are traps for young players in weighing aircraft ....
As a longtime designer of loadsheets and other like instruments of the devil, I suggest that computer generated data ought to give you a much better calculated cg .. and hence better stab setting.
A manual trimsheet usually has a number of designed-in errors (normally accounted for by an adjusted envelope)to make it workable.
If designed well, the trimsheet will ensure that the cg is OK (ie within limits) but not necessarily very near to where the trimsheet suggests it might be. As a result, the stab setting will be approximate only - there is no point in agonising over the setting ..... sensibly close is fine.
The computer generated data ought not to have the errors which are usual in the manual sheet.
Standard weights are another problem altogether - although, if they be based on sensible population stats .. then the data are pretty good with reasonable numbers of people and bags. Best to weigh if the operation is very critical on weight.
And, do keep in mind ... the empty weight data is not all that accurate in most cases .. I have done a number of investigations in this area and there are traps for young players in weighing aircraft ....
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True enough there's a few things that we don't really know, for example the exact seating positions of the hundreds of people and the average CG for them, and the same for the containers, eg, "There's four in the front and six in the back"
As you no doubt know the room under the floor of the 747's means that those ten containers could be moved around a fair bit!
But to give you an example of how far off the computer one can be, I calculated the stab trim to be 4.5 units (which we used) and the computer came up with 6.5.
I specifically took notice on take-off, and the controls felt pretty good to me. With 6.5 units, it would have been way to light and very nose-up.
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Motion coming on!
As you no doubt know the room under the floor of the 747's means that those ten containers could be moved around a fair bit!
But to give you an example of how far off the computer one can be, I calculated the stab trim to be 4.5 units (which we used) and the computer came up with 6.5.
I specifically took notice on take-off, and the controls felt pretty good to me. With 6.5 units, it would have been way to light and very nose-up.
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Motion coming on!
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Not able to comment specifically without a lot more data ... you aren't suggesting that your airline exercises lax control over its day to day loading procedures, are you ? If so, then that might be the tip of a nasty iceberg ...
I would be interested to know the basis for the computer and your own calculations. On what grounds do you contend that either is more accurate (or, if you wish, inaccurate) than the other ?
I would be interested to know the basis for the computer and your own calculations. On what grounds do you contend that either is more accurate (or, if you wish, inaccurate) than the other ?
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I think it starts from a bit of lack of communication on both sides, for example the basic weight of the plane is almost always wrong. That can really only come from our company, to be passed on to the handling company that subsequently works out the load sheet. But really, there's not a lot of difference at the end of the day between 11 flight attendants and 13. We also operate about three or four different variants of the 747-100/200, so there's the inevitable differences there, too.
FWIW, 'our airline' does not ever provide computer load sheets, they're always done manually by the F/O and checked by the Captain. That's almost invariably the case, even when given computer load sheets given to us by just about anyone.
They are also not used to handling a 747, but since it's computer generated I guess it shouldn't really make a difference as such.
An example there is we typically load the freight about 40/60% front to rear. Got the load distribution last week and it was 60/40! I did a manual check (of course) and it was well within limits, but if they'd put the freight where it was supposed to be then the CG would be well more towards the middle of the limits. If it was even close to have being a problem we would have told them without hesitation to take it out and start again.
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Motion coming on!
We also operate about three or four different variants of the 747-100/200, so there's the inevitable differences there, too.FWIW, 'our airline' does not ever provide computer load sheets, they're always done manually by the F/O and checked by the Captain. That's almost invariably the case, even when given computer load sheets given to us by just about anyone.
They are also not used to handling a 747, but since it's computer generated I guess it shouldn't really make a difference as such.
An example there is we typically load the freight about 40/60% front to rear. Got the load distribution last week and it was 60/40! I did a manual check (of course) and it was well within limits, but if they'd put the freight where it was supposed to be then the CG would be well more towards the middle of the limits. If it was even close to have being a problem we would have told them without hesitation to take it out and start again.
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Motion coming on!
