Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Tech Log
Reload this Page >

E170/190 Angle of Attack

Wikiposts
Search
Tech Log The very best in practical technical discussion on the web

E170/190 Angle of Attack

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 25th Jun 2017, 20:45
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Village of Santo Poco
Posts: 869
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
What ego, O Chesty of My Soul? Airplanes flew long before the 170/190 and will long after. Physics haven't changed, aerodynamics haven't changed.

Outta curiosity, what do you plan on doing one fine day when the QRH is not available (for whatever reason)? Are you up the proverbial small river without the similarly proverbial rowing device or what?
Amadis of Gaul is offline  
Old 25th Jun 2017, 20:58
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Wor Yerm
Age: 68
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
It's not too difficult to fly once you have realised what is going on. The difficult bit is working out which system/s are correct and which are wrong.
Piltdown Man is offline  
Old 25th Jun 2017, 21:02
  #23 (permalink)  
Gender Faculty Specialist
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Stop being so stupid, it's Sean's turn
Posts: 1,885
Received 5 Likes on 4 Posts
The ego part of thinking what you think looks about right is better than flying the actual pitch and attitude you need to achieve the performance you need.

The chances of not having either of the two electronic QRHs or the two paper QRHs available when we need them is minute but I guess that's why we also have a broad stroke memory item. That would also be the time to employ airmanship.
Chesty Morgan is online now  
Old 28th Jun 2017, 02:13
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 803
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Chesty Morgan
The ego part of thinking what you think looks about right is better than flying the actual pitch and attitude you need to achieve the performance you need.
Surely you're not suggesting that one look up the pitch from a 115 cell table every time time he changes the attitude. Then what other option is there but to TLAR it first, and then fine-tune based on the performance instruments?

Last edited by Vessbot; 28th Jun 2017 at 15:12.
Vessbot is offline  
Old 28th Jun 2017, 05:29
  #25 (permalink)  
Gender Faculty Specialist
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Stop being so stupid, it's Sean's turn
Posts: 1,885
Received 5 Likes on 4 Posts
No.........
Chesty Morgan is online now  
Old 28th Jun 2017, 14:25
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Village of Santo Poco
Posts: 869
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Vessbot
Surely you're not suggesting that one look up the pitch from a 115 cell table every time time he changes the attitude. Then what other option is there but to TLAR it first, and then fine-tune based on the performance instrument?
That's exactly what he's suggesting.
Amadis of Gaul is offline  
Old 28th Jun 2017, 15:15
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 803
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Chesty Morgan
No.........
Then what?

Originally Posted by Amadis of Gaul
That's exactly what he's suggesting.
I refuse to believe such an absurdity unless he says it explicitly. Principle of charity, and all that.
Vessbot is offline  
Old 28th Jun 2017, 15:47
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Village of Santo Poco
Posts: 869
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Vessbot

I refuse to believe such an absurdity unless he says it explicitly. Principle of charity, and all that.
He HAS said it explicitly. In fact, he labeled anything else "excessive ego".
Amadis of Gaul is offline  
Old 28th Jun 2017, 15:57
  #29 (permalink)  
Gender Faculty Specialist
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Stop being so stupid, it's Sean's turn
Posts: 1,885
Received 5 Likes on 4 Posts
No I haven't.
Chesty Morgan is online now  
Old 28th Jun 2017, 16:47
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 803
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
So what is it?
Vessbot is offline  
Old 28th Jun 2017, 16:53
  #31 (permalink)  
Gender Faculty Specialist
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Stop being so stupid, it's Sean's turn
Posts: 1,885
Received 5 Likes on 4 Posts
What is what?
Chesty Morgan is online now  
Old 28th Jun 2017, 16:56
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 803
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
What are you suggesting regarding the proper setting of pitch attitude?
Vessbot is offline  
Old 28th Jun 2017, 16:59
  #33 (permalink)  
Gender Faculty Specialist
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Stop being so stupid, it's Sean's turn
Posts: 1,885
Received 5 Likes on 4 Posts
I'm suggesting that to achieve the performance you require then you fly the correct pitch and power settings.

It might help you to understand that, in normal circumstances, we don't fly pitch and power.
Chesty Morgan is online now  
Old 28th Jun 2017, 17:13
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 803
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Chesty Morgan
I'm suggesting that to achieve the performance you require then you fly the correct pitch and power settings.
That sounds reasonable. But the discussion was already at a point beyond that. So how do you know the correct pitch and power settings to fly?
Vessbot is offline  
Old 28th Jun 2017, 17:19
  #35 (permalink)  
Gender Faculty Specialist
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Stop being so stupid, it's Sean's turn
Posts: 1,885
Received 5 Likes on 4 Posts
No, the discussion was at the 'I know better so I'll make it up' point.

I don't. No, I can't know them all. That's why the same nice man who Amadis is going to ignore has provided them for me.
Chesty Morgan is online now  
Old 28th Jun 2017, 17:34
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 803
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Chesty Morgan
I don't. No, I can't know them all. That's why the same nice man who Amadis is going to ignore has provided them for me.
I guess I wasn't as clear as I thought. I didn't mean knowing them as in being able to recite them to me on the forum, but rather knowing them as in applying them in the cockpit. (Flight director aside, of course.) So, while flying, how do you set the correct pitch and power?
Vessbot is offline  
Old 28th Jun 2017, 18:06
  #37 (permalink)  
Gender Faculty Specialist
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Stop being so stupid, it's Sean's turn
Posts: 1,885
Received 5 Likes on 4 Posts
Like I said, they're all in the QRH.
Chesty Morgan is online now  
Old 28th Jun 2017, 18:32
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 803
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Chesty Morgan
Like I said, they're all in the QRH.
I don't understand. What do you do with this information? When I said "Surely you're not suggesting that one look up the pitch from a 115 cell table every time time he changes the attitude" you flatly said "no." So you don't look it up when you're flying, you don't memorize them all (as you've said a few times, it's impossible), then what do you do?
Vessbot is offline  
Old 28th Jun 2017, 18:54
  #39 (permalink)  
Gender Faculty Specialist
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Stop being so stupid, it's Sean's turn
Posts: 1,885
Received 5 Likes on 4 Posts
I use it when I need it.

We don't fly pitch or power (no airliner I've ever flown requires it), in normal circumstances, so there's no need to refer to any table, in normal circumstances.
Chesty Morgan is online now  
Old 28th Jun 2017, 19:27
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 803
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
You've said what you don't do (many times over), but my question is, what do you do?
Vessbot is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.