Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Tech Log
Reload this Page >

A new flight mode annunciation concept

Tech Log The very best in practical technical discussion on the web

A new flight mode annunciation concept

Old 13th Nov 2016, 19:55
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: London
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
A new flight mode annunciation concept

Dear professional pilot community

Please have a look at my proposal for a new flight mode annunciation concept:

https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/22NYTHV

I would be very grateful for your feedback.

Many thanks.

Best regards

avionics_engineer
avionics_engineer is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2016, 06:58
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 1996
Location: Check with Ops
Posts: 741
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Interesting
Pontius is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2016, 08:48
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Tring, UK
Posts: 1,823
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Yes. Quite thought provoking. I like the way it reduces the complexity of some modes down to basic indications, like altitude, speed, etc. so it’s more obvious that intervention may be required for the best outcome.

Another plus is that this is a small addition, rather than a complete re-working of a display. The original presentation is still there, just the important bits are highlighted. Early days but I think you might have something really worthwhile here...
FullWings is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2016, 08:54
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: My views - Not my employer!
Posts: 1,030
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I'm neutral. When the boxes move to their new homes during an FMA transition, your eyes are drawn towards them. Your eyes actually need to be drawn towards what is missing - In the example given its autothrust and the need for manual thrust control.
Cough is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2016, 09:40
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: England
Posts: 435
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
What you are suggesting is to lead the pilot's scan. In the old days this was done by practise and experience but now we have become lazy and reliant on the technology working as advertised. As has been suggested, rather than highlighting what is correct, maybe a flag can be annotated to parameters that are not normal (if such a thing can be worked out!).
Capt Scribble is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2016, 10:53
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: I wouldn't know.
Posts: 4,497
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I do not really see where the big difference is. We already get boxes around new modes, and any correctly trained pilot knows the implications of those boxes instantly. The effort should be on training, rather than even more visual cues in a system that already relies too heavily on one sensor channel of those three that are available to human beings (visual, audio and tactile).

As mentioned above, the example with the deactivated autothrust is rather interesting, the speed decay, the eyes are drawn to the new boxes without any prompting for the decaying speed. This is rather doing the opposite of what it should do if we have to direct the scan to start with.
Denti is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2016, 10:57
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 1996
Location: Check with Ops
Posts: 741
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Your eyes actually need to be drawn towards what is missing - In the example given its autothrust and the need for manual thrust control.
I agree and wrote as such in the comments field. I suggested that there might be a red box to highlight the fact that airspeed (in this case) was reducing beyond a certain limit close to minimums. Of course, there exist other visual cues at the moment (even if they are ignored by Asiana) but as this is meant to be improving an existing system then why not draw more attention rather than just have the speed reducing past the hockey stick etc?

Another plus is that this is a small addition, rather than a complete re-working of a display. The original presentation is still there, just the important bits are highlighted
Yeah, I liked that too. Not trying to reinvent the wheel just add some chrome to it.
Pontius is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2016, 11:07
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Village of Santo Poco
Posts: 866
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I like the idea, but not the execution. Particularly because the amount of clutter is increased even if some that clutter is arguably more helpful.
Amadis of Gaul is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2016, 15:51
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: wherever
Age: 55
Posts: 1,616
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
You've started with a 30 year old style of PFD and added some boxes mate. It makes no difference.

Go study proline fusion on big displays and HUD to see where the industry is at and work from there.
FE Hoppy is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2016, 20:06
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: 41S174E
Age: 56
Posts: 3,083
Received 444 Likes on 122 Posts
In the old days this was done by practise and experience but now we have become lazy and reliant on the technology working as advertised.
Just a small point and you may well be aware of it anyway;
We haven't become lazy, we have become complacent. It seems like a pedantic point but it is very important because one is caused by a poor attitude and could be resolved at the recruitment stage, and the other is caused by evolutionary heuristics which need to be understood to solve the problem. When that small (large) point of difference became clear to me it completely changed how I viewed the problems the industry faces around maintaining pilot skills so I thought it worth mentioning as it may do the same for others.
Cheers
framer is offline  
Old 15th Nov 2016, 05:05
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Escapee from Ultima Thule
Posts: 4,273
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
I think your flight mode awareness display is good but could be improved. Use the green box for currently active as you have suggested, but also add a limiting time flashing red box for a terminating parameter+flashing green box for a commencing parameter. After the time period the red box disappears and the flashing green box stops flashing.

eg IAS mode during descent to an altitude

During altitude capture as the primary parameter changes from IAS to ALT, the IAS green box would change to flashing red and the ALT box activates as flashing green, with an audio alert. After a second or two the IAS flashing red disappears and the ALT flashing green stops flashing.
Tinstaafl is offline  
Old 15th Nov 2016, 06:36
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Oztrailia
Posts: 2,991
Received 14 Likes on 10 Posts
Nothing wrong with the way Boeing has been doing it for 30 years. IMHO.

If you think the Boeing AFDS is complicated don't go anywhere near the Airbus one.
ACMS is offline  
Old 15th Nov 2016, 09:43
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Tring, UK
Posts: 1,823
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Not wishing to put words into the author’s mouth but I think the point of this exercise is to cut out a mental step or two when relating what is on the FMA to what the aircraft is going to do next, therefore freeing capacity.

On the 777 there are seven autothrottle modes (eight if you count blank), nine roll modes and ten pitch modes. That’s over seven hundred possible combinations. Granted, many of those are not likely or even possible but some have complex interactions and the effects of the same are not always immediately obvious, especially on a stormy night approach (or day CAVOK one) after 15hrs in the air. We have plenty of evidence for this...

...also add a limiting time flashing red box...
I think you have to be careful with that colour: it’s generally reserved for “warnings” that things that have gone wrong in a big way and need fixing NOW, like GPWS, fires, windshear, stalls, etc. If I was going to add more, it might be an amber “caution” box, although you already get that when the the airspeed gets too low and having amber when you’re not actually in a caution zone appears to be contrary to the overall design logic.

Last edited by FullWings; 15th Nov 2016 at 10:13.
FullWings is offline  
Old 15th Nov 2016, 10:32
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,195
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The concept is actually a good one, given that a practical limitation is that a complete display overhaul will NOT be forthcoming on legacy airplane suites. As a modification to existing systems, it has merits.

Thinner boxes might reduce the appearance of clutter. A color or dashed-line code might even relate parameter to mode (e.g., magenta box or short dashed lines for roll mode).
Intruder is offline  
Old 15th Nov 2016, 10:41
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 2,472
Received 84 Likes on 49 Posts
The proposals seem to me to add complexity and clutter rather than reduce it. The basic piloting job is to scan the instruments. In a modern jet airliner, the various modes on the FMA and their interactions with flight parameters also must be understood, and the influence of each mode and mode change on the primary flight parameters must be constantly checked and understood.

For example; one must always understand who or what is controlling aircraft speed, and how this is being achieved. The pilot must scan the speed tape and the trend arrow often and be in no doubt about which system is controlling speed. So the primary visual check must be to the speed tape and trend arrow. If a green box is drawn around the speed, then I can see problems in that the tired/lazy/incompetant pilot will get used to just glancing to see if the green box is present without actually reading the speed and trend. If pilots get used to this, it will cause serious problems in the event of system failures and those times when manual flight is required.

Another example is the heading demonstration. If a pilot has to have a green box drawn around the heading bug to know which parameter "heading" will affect, then there is little hope for them.

If the FMA changes, a pilot must be able to assimilate the PFD themselves and know which parameter on the PFD the FMA change will affect, because systems knowledge and an understanding of how each system affects which PFD parameter is also important. The danger here is that pilots might get used to just checking to see three green boxes on the PFD without knowing or understanding which modes the aircraft systems are in.

No disrespect to the OP, but I am not sure that this is a useful advance to piloting.


(I am an Airbus pilot and I have to say that the Boeing FMA seems confusing compared to the Airbus one, but of course that is probably just because I am unfamiliar with it.)

Last edited by Uplinker; 15th Nov 2016 at 10:58.
Uplinker is offline  
Old 15th Nov 2016, 12:13
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Tring, UK
Posts: 1,823
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
All valid points. However, we are where we are when it comes to (lack of) instruments scans and mode awareness in glass cockpits and until the design and/or training changes, that’s where we’re going to stay. Flight directors are not helping.

I don’t think there are any rules against making things easier if there are corresponding increases in safety and awareness. It’s all very well saying “pilots should...” and “constantly checked” and “know the systems” but we need to acknowledge the underlying reality that it is sometimes hard to keep the comprehension up at x-o’clock in the morning after long flight and a tiring run of duties. A little help goes a long way and it’s not a competition.
FullWings is offline  
Old 15th Nov 2016, 18:06
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 2,472
Received 84 Likes on 49 Posts
I don’t think there are any rules against making things easier if there are corresponding increases in safety and awareness. I
Agreed, systems such as TCAS come under this description.

However, pilots do need to understand and monitor their flight systems and modes. Dumbing down flight displays and not requiring a reasonable level of ability will lead us to a bad place - children of the magenta and all that.

If the FMA had not yet been invented, then this proposal might be worth considering, but it has, so the information is already there. I am comparing this to the Airbus PFD and FMA which seem to give all the information required in a very clear manner. Perhaps the Boeing version is more complicated and/or less understandable? I don't know.

Last edited by Uplinker; 15th Nov 2016 at 18:29.
Uplinker is offline  
Old 16th Nov 2016, 08:27
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: London
Posts: 29
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I'm not an airline pilot at all, but the comment above about long sectors and fatigue made me think of this - would it help if the display gradually changed over the course of the flight for longer sectors? So after an exhausting 12-15 hour flight you'd get less information to deal with the longer the flight gets, giving the PF only the required information and not the supplementary, less important information? Just thinking out loud really.
AndoniP is offline  
Old 16th Nov 2016, 10:28
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 2,472
Received 84 Likes on 49 Posts
a) All the information on the PrimaryFlightDisplay, and others, is important at any time of flight - especially during the approach to land after ~12 hours ! Trust me, manufacturers and airlines do not provide instrumentation that is not required !

A comparison might be a car suppressing some of its instrumentation, for example its anti skid or brake warning lights after it had been driven for more than say 4 hours?

b) It would be condoning fatigued pilots in charge of airliners, which is a definite no-no.

There is a very simple way to make sure that pilots do not get confused by PFD's: Proper selection, Proper training, and no fatigue.
Uplinker is offline  
Old 16th Nov 2016, 15:58
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: wherever
Age: 55
Posts: 1,616
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Many EDS declutter non essential information but display it again in case of failures. Also may PFDs and I think all HUDs declutter in case of unusual attitude.

Last edited by FE Hoppy; 18th Nov 2016 at 09:28.
FE Hoppy is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.