Parallel landing at SFO
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Parallel landing at SFO
It's known as a PRM approach.
How does this work?
The slightly more complex answer is as DR has said, down to parallel lines... Usually how it works at SFO if they are landing to the west is that one aircraft flies a right hand traffic pattern, e.g. flying over San Francisco Bay bay for right turns to a visual approach onto 28 Right, the other traffic will fly a left hand traffic pattern coming in from the south for 28 Left (Google earth might help you visualise this if you are not familiar with the geography).
ATC "caution" you about the other traffic then let you get on with it..it's quite entertaining when you are pointing at each other on base leg....above all the really big thing to remember is not to fly through your centreline...
Almost proper flying and it can make for a fun end to a long haul day out....
Last edited by wiggy; 17th Jun 2016 at 07:31.
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Never been to SFO, but it happens quite frequently at other airports like DEN and ATL. The runways at SFO do seem to be a bit closer together though. No special briefing required, other than "don't overshoot the turn to final".
Sounds fun! Where do I sign up? 
What do you do with the TCAS in that situation? Put it in TA?
Now I've watched the video...the lead landed long!
Originally Posted by Wiggy
it's quite entertaining when you are pointing at each other on base leg....
Now I've watched the video...the lead landed long!
Folks,
Funnily enough, parallel simultaneous approaches have been the norm at KSFO since the place was built --- that is a long time ago.
Separation is fundamentally handled by the LOTW system, apparently unknown to many Australian pilots.
As you do (SOPs -- aircraft/equipment/airline operator) in any area of high density traffic in the approach/departure area.
Funnily enough, some regard it as normal operations to cooperate with ATC, and arrange their operations to vacate the runway in minimum time. When you have 10,000+ to play with, and it can safely be accommodated, a "normal" touchdown at the threshold is not necessary, aiming to a displaced threshold is not unknown.
Funnily enough, parallel simultaneous approaches have been the norm at KSFO since the place was built --- that is a long time ago.
Separation is fundamentally handled by the LOTW system, apparently unknown to many Australian pilots.
What do you do with the TCAS in that situation? Put it in TA?
Now I've watched the video...the lead landed long!
What do you do with the TCAS in that situation? Put it in TA?
Thanks Wiggy.
Slow news day in Australia, Leddie? Trawling the international forums looking for an opportunity to rip in to Aussie pilots, I see...
As you do (SOPs -- aircraft/equipment/airline operator) in any area of high density traffic in the approach/departure area.
I'd rather a practising pilot at SFO like Wiggy answer, thanks all the same for your blindingly obvious non-answer. 
Private joke that you wouldn't understand, Leddee...
I apologise to the wider audience for the apparent vitriol; what are quite reasonable questions are often answered by LedSled in the manner above on the Aussie forums. Disappointing it spills over into Techlog. Spoils the whole Prune thing, really...
Slow news day in Australia, Leddie? Trawling the international forums looking for an opportunity to rip in to Aussie pilots, I see...
What do you do with the TCAS in that situation? Put it in TA?
the lead landed long
I apologise to the wider audience for the apparent vitriol; what are quite reasonable questions are often answered by LedSled in the manner above on the Aussie forums. Disappointing it spills over into Techlog. Spoils the whole Prune thing, really...
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In SFO they separate you by 1000ft until you report your traffic for the other runway in sight. Then you get the clearance for a visual approach with the remark:"Do not overtake" (if you are the follower).
We leave TCAS in RA.
We leave TCAS in RA.
Folks,
I note the nasty little tail in Bloggs last post. If I said black was black, he would argue it was white ---- this is a matter of long history.
I rather suspect that if he actually ever operated in US, he would blow a foofle valve, having long battled against any introduction of the US approach to Australian aviation, particularly US airspace and traffic management. He "knows" it won't work !! The fact that it does demonstrably work, and work well, at much greater traffic levels than Australia, is no more than a trifling and inconvenient fact.
Unlike him, I have operated through KSFO (and many other places in US) since long before TCAS was even invented, needless to say, including parallel approaches at KSFO, as P1 in aircraft varying in gross weight from 1600kg through to 398,000 kg.
As to RA v. TA, for many years my then employer, a major international carrier, recommended as per the manufacturer (in my case, Boeing) and the avionics manufacturer, TA in terminal areas, but left the final decision up to the Captain of the aircraft.
In the current operations, in which I have some involvement, we follow the same practice, leave the final decision up to the suitably informed and experienced Captain.
I note the nasty little tail in Bloggs last post. If I said black was black, he would argue it was white ---- this is a matter of long history.
I rather suspect that if he actually ever operated in US, he would blow a foofle valve, having long battled against any introduction of the US approach to Australian aviation, particularly US airspace and traffic management. He "knows" it won't work !! The fact that it does demonstrably work, and work well, at much greater traffic levels than Australia, is no more than a trifling and inconvenient fact.
Unlike him, I have operated through KSFO (and many other places in US) since long before TCAS was even invented, needless to say, including parallel approaches at KSFO, as P1 in aircraft varying in gross weight from 1600kg through to 398,000 kg.
As to RA v. TA, for many years my then employer, a major international carrier, recommended as per the manufacturer (in my case, Boeing) and the avionics manufacturer, TA in terminal areas, but left the final decision up to the Captain of the aircraft.
In the current operations, in which I have some involvement, we follow the same practice, leave the final decision up to the suitably informed and experienced Captain.
Quote:
What do you do with the TCAS in that situation? Put it in TA?
That was indeed an Ops manual requirement when we first got TCAS, but that was subsequently amended out and we leave it in RA. It's a while since i've done a close parallel visual there but we didn't get any TCAS alerts/warnings last time. Improved software?
What do you do with the TCAS in that situation? Put it in TA?
That was indeed an Ops manual requirement when we first got TCAS, but that was subsequently amended out and we leave it in RA. It's a while since i've done a close parallel visual there but we didn't get any TCAS alerts/warnings last time. Improved software?
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At our company, the Captain may select TA when operating on closely spaced, non PRM approaches, when noted by company produced airport information pages, unit malfunction or directed by checklist.
When operating in TA (at least on our aircraft) the ND will only display nearby aircraft when a TA is generated, for the period of time the TA is active, after which it returns to not displaying any nearby aircraft.
Is this the experience of others reading this thread?
When operating in TA (at least on our aircraft) the ND will only display nearby aircraft when a TA is generated, for the period of time the TA is active, after which it returns to not displaying any nearby aircraft.
Is this the experience of others reading this thread?
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Sorry, I understand how CSPR works, but the runways are only 750 feet apart, so it seems the ac should not be parallel..
any these pairs? just seems too close...
any these pairs? just seems too close...
any these pairs? just seems too close...
Look at your diagram. Extend the |----1.5----| lines down and to the left about 15 lengths. That's about where the planespotter was when he made the picture, with a massive telephoto/telecopic lens from a ~45° angle**, that compressed the actual separation.
** note you can see both the front of the wings and sides of the fuselages - thus the picture was not taken directly from the side nor from directly ahead, but from 45° to the flight paths.